Minnesota Sports Forum

A smaller crowd than Friday night. But the crowd was even quieter that it's comparatively smaller size would suggest. It was like a tomb in the arena until the 4th quarter.

The only energy in the first half came from KAT and Taj on the court and from KAT's dad in the stands. KAT's dad sits in my area most games just 3 rows behind me and he's generally pretty vocal. But he seemed extra loud last night, which in the tomb-like quiet of the arena last night made it pretty easy to hear what he was saying. You can tell from his comments this season that KAT's dad really likes Taj, Derrick and Tyus. One player who clear frustrates him is Teague. Like many of us in the arena, he sees multiple passing and shooting opportunities for Teague that he overlooks in favor of continuing his dribble. He was also frustrated by his son in the second half last night, yelling at him to attack as KAT continued to hesitate.

As for the game itself, KAT carried us offensively in the first half. Then Derrick Rose carried us offensively in the 2nd, ultimately hitting that last-second shot that gave us a 2-point win over a team we should have beaten by 10. Those two players were great last night. It's scary to think of how much we would have lost by without either one of them. But there was one other hero, an unsung hero, for the Wolves last night - Taj Gibson. His incredibly efficient 17 points (going 7 for 8 from the field and 3-3 from the line) along with his 5 rebounds were huge. And it was his steal that gave Rose the chance to hit that game-winning shot in the end. Saric also came through with an efficient 9 points and 5 rebounds in 20 minutes. Those 4 players along with Okogie and Bayless came to play last night.

Teague was terrible last night. My wife said, as she has many times this season, that Teague looks like he just doesn't want to be here. I wish I had a dollar for every time he has passed up WIDE open looks from behind the arc and everytime he's missed getting the ball to his teammates when they're open. Wiggins was pathetic last. There is no sugar-coating his 21% field-goal shooting and his 4 missed free throws on 7 attempts. Worse yet, he had no steals, no blocks and no assists. All of that in 40 minutes. He had a few good defensive plays, but had a really hard time staying in front of his man defensively, requiring a ton of help from KAT and others, which gave the Suns scoring opportunities they shouldn't have had. Worse than anything was watching Wiggins float into the lane and gingerly try to lay the ball in and avoid contact rather than dunk the ball or draw contact. He came out after half-time and looked kind of pissed as other players were patting him on the back and seemingly giving him pep talks. The result? A miserable second half just like his miserable first half.

So it's good we got the win. It keeps the Wolves in the playoff hunt while we wait for the return of Covington and Tyus. But the fact that we required 29 points and a last second game-winner from Derrick Rose to beat the worst team in the West in our building doesn't bode well for the Wolves. We'll see.

If nothing else, last night's game solidified my view that the Wolves need to move Wiggins and Teague. Unfortunately, we might have to give up valuable assets to convince some team to take either one. But the Wolves should work hard to try and move one or both by this February's trade deadline. Derrick Rose could probably bring good value in return in a trade this winter, but I'd hesitate to move him. I love the guy and this team needs all the players with heart we can get. No one has a bigger heart than Derrick Rose. In fact, I don't think we have any chance of making the playoffs this season without Derrick. After this season, the Wolves should plan on moving forward with KAT, Okogie and Tyus. I'd also like to keep Taj and Rose for the right price. And I'd keep Saric unless we can get a really good deal for him. Otherwise, we should be prepared to move on from everyone else on this roster.

Lot's of similarities in what we saw last night, Lip...you in person, and me from my couch. Sorry to hear the arena was dead last night.
I'm also not a Teague fan, but in all fairness he was ill last night and probably shouldn't have suited up. I don't enjoy much of Jeff's game, but also never question his toughness. With Tyus out, I think he felt that he had to try and go, but realized he had nothing in the tank. I know the Suns are not very good, but they similarly took the Raptors down to the wire on their court last Thursday again only to lose by 2. And even though Ayton was out, we were even more hamstrung missing our best defensive player and 2 PGs, so kudos to Ryan and the healthy guys he had left for pulling this one out.
Taj has become my favorite player. His rebounding totals are always suppressed because he defers to KAT, and his long arms keep alive so many balls that someone else eventually rebounds. His footwork when he gets the ball in the paint should be required viewing for any big man who is learning an inside game, and he misses fewer bunnies than anyone on the team it seems. All that said, there are times when Saric is the right guy to have in at the 4 (or even Tolliver once RoCo is back) and Ryan has been masterful in how he has rotated the PFs.

Rose was terrific, and the only choice for the final shot. I actually thought he was going to drive the lane and draw a foul, but he was so hot on the mid-range, he made the right choice. Another thing I admire about Rose is that he acts "like he has been there before". No strutting or unnecessary exuberance when he makes a great play...just a guy doing his job, albeit in an extraordinary way.

All in all a less than satisfying win, but one that we needed to stay in the playoff hunt. Now we need to uncharacteristically take care of business in Phoenix Tuesday and beat a likely James-less Lakers team after that, because the next two games against a red-hot Jazz team will be a split at best.

longstrangetrip wrote:Lot's of similarities in what we saw last night, Lip...you in person, and me from my couch. Sorry to hear the arena was dead last night.
I'm also not a Teague fan, but in all fairness he was ill last night and probably shouldn't have suited up. I don't enjoy much of Jeff's game, but also never question his toughness. With Tyus out, I think he felt that he had to try and go, but realized he had nothing in the tank. I know the Suns are not very good, but they similarly took the Raptors down to the wire on their court last Thursday again only to lose by 2. And even though Ayton was out, we were even more hamstrung missing our best defensive player and 2 PGs, so kudos to Ryan and the healthy guys he had left for pulling this one out.
Taj has become my favorite player. His rebounding totals are always suppressed because he defers to KAT, and his long arms keep alive so many balls that someone else eventually rebounds. His footwork when he gets the ball in the paint should be required viewing for any big man who is learning an inside game, and he misses fewer bunnies than anyone on the team it seems. All that said, there are times when Saric is the right guy to have in at the 4 (or even Tolliver once RoCo is back) and Ryan has been masterful in how he has rotated the PFs.

Rose was terrific, and the only choice for the final shot. I actually thought he was going to drive the lane and draw a foul, but he was so hot on the mid-range, he made the right choice. Another thing I admire about Rose is that he acts "like he has been there before". No strutting or unnecessary exuberance when he makes a great play...just a guy doing his job, albeit in an extraordinary way.

All in all a less than satisfying win, but one that we needed to stay in the playoff hunt. Now we need to uncharacteristically take care of business in Phoenix Tuesday and beat a likely James-less Lakers team after that, because the next two games against a red-hot Jazz team will be a split at best.

I'll take the 2-point win over the Suns last night. As you pointed out, these next two games are big. Both games are winnable. Taking both of these road games would set us up nicely for a 4-1 stretch (counting last night's game) after splitting the two Utah games. Unfortunately, we've shown no sign this season to suggest we can win two consecutive road games - especially without RoCo and Tyus.

As for Teague, I didn't know he was ill last night. But sadly he didn't look any worse than usual. Really bad luck for Tyus to go down just when he was beginning to hit his stride as the team's best PG.

The Suns were playing the second leg of a road back-to-back... traveling from Charlotte... the last game of a 4-game road trip... without its 2nd best player (Ayton)... as well as his backup (Holmes)... forced to start Dragan Bender for the first time all season (he had his best game of the season!)... as the ONLY post player on the entire team.

And all it took was a last-second contested step-back 20 footer to get the win.

Congrats boys.




[Note: I was at the game, too. I purchased tickets in the upper deck for this one. There were many, many, many empty seats around us. A lot of people didn't use tickets that were allegedly sold to the public.]

Teague is flat out playing like Rubio froma few years ago. 8 assists 5 rebounds in 24 mins. He gets the Luke Ridnour award for this season I'm calling it right now. The guy never gets the benefit of the doubt. It reminds me of how people trashed JJ Barea.

I still think there is a better than 50/50 chance Teague makes the decision for us and turns down his player option in the hopes of getting a 4-year deal for, say 55 or 60M. Coaches and GMs know that he's quarterbacked multiple 50+ win teams. I don't think he's happy in Minnesota (shocking, I know).

monsterpile wrote:Teague is flat out playing like Rubio froma few years ago. 8 assists 5 rebounds in 24 mins. He gets the Luke Ridnour award for this season I'm calling it right now. The guy never gets the benefit of the doubt. It reminds me of how people trashed JJ Barea.

Teague's stats way overstate his contribution. That's different from Ricky, whose stats often understated his contribution. Ricky ran the offensive beautifully, made his teammates better and made the team greater than the sum of its parts when he was on the court. Teague is the antithesis of Ricky. That's not to say Teague is a bad player. He's actually a good player. But he's a poor fit for this team and isn't particularly good at running an offense as a team's starting PG. I love JJ Barea and though he was unfairly bashed by some. I also like Luke Ridnour and I recall him being highly regarded by most fans. Teague is criticized for good and obvious reasons - overdribbling and passing up wide open threes, coupled with defense that comes and goes. He's amazing in that he passes up both open teammates and open shots, which is pretty rare since usually a player will have a tendency to do one or the other, not both. Those of us who watch him live a lot see all the missed passing opportunities you often don't see on TV.

There are differing opinions among people who regularly sit in my section when it comes to Tyus, Saric, Tolliver. But the there's a consensus negative view of Teague as our PG. The more you see him and the more you see him live, the more obvious his overall negative impact is. I like Teague the person and actually like some things he can do as a player. Maybe a totally different offensive system would work for him. But I've seen enough to be convinced that he's a net negative as our PG and certainly not worth $19 million.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Teague is flat out playing like Rubio froma few years ago. 8 assists 5 rebounds in 24 mins. He gets the Luke Ridnour award for this season I'm calling it right now. The guy never gets the benefit of the doubt. It reminds me of how people trashed JJ Barea.

Teague's stats way overstate his contribution. That's different from Ricky, whose stats often understated his contribution. Ricky ran the offensive beautifully, made his teammates better and made the team greater than the sum of its parts when he was on the court. Teague is the antithesis of Ricky. That's not to say Teague is a bad player. He's actually a good player. But he's a poor fit for this team and isn't particularly good at running an offense as a team's starting PG. I love JJ Barea and though he was unfairly bashed by some. I also like Luke Ridnour and I recall him being highly regarded by most fans. Teague is criticized for good and obvious reasons - overdribbling and passing up wide open threes, coupled with defense that comes and goes. He's amazing in that he passes up both open teammates and open shots, which is pretty rare since usually a player will have a tendency to do one or the other, not both. Those of us who watch him live a lot see all the missed passing opportunities you often don't see on TV.

There are differing opinions among people who regularly sit in my section when it comes to Tyus, Saric, Tolliver. But the there's a consensus negative view of Teague as our PG. The more you see him and the more you see him live, the more obvious his overall negative impact is. I like Teague the person and actually like some things he can do as a player. Maybe a totally different offensive system would work for him. But I've seen enough to be convinced that he's a net negative as our PG and certainly not worth $19 million.

Lip this is a well thought out post but I think you missed the point. Watch Teague. The guy is dribbling around looking to get guys off. It's been this way for a while. It's the same way Rubio used to play and not take shots when he was wide open. Part of why people are so upset with Teague is the dribbling around BUT right now he is playing the same style as beloved Ricky. I'm not arguing he is as good as Rubio in this role I'm saying that's what he is doing. You said Teague is a good player but a bad fit for this team. Who's fault is that? Teague? Sure it's partly him. You have often blame Thibs for Teague coming here and how you don't like the offense that was run. He isn't here anymore. Teague isn't so terrible that a good coach can't get something out of him. Why is Teague playing this role? You said maybe a different offensive system would work for him...hey guess what we have a new coach. :) it's up to Ryan Saunders and this nifty collaborative bunch on the coaching staff to get the most out of a good player in Teague even its for 30 or so games.

I think you will agree Teague is not a selfish player. The guy wants to play the right way and is a good teammate. He has been vocal about playing the right way (and a different way) on both ends of the court. Maybe Ryan will listen and help Teague be the player and team Teague seemingly has been wanting for months. Give the guy a bit of a break. Just to be clear I'm not suggesting Teague always backs up the things he says...but lots of people don't. Again I think it's a guy that wants to do better. Coach Bud got a lot out of this guy. Maybe it doesn't work out and he just needs to go somewhere else to flourish...but my guess is if he was playing the right role he here would be very worthwhile and fans would enjoy the guy. He is just another guard being asked to do more than he should be. It's up to this coaching staff to put him in the right position. It may take a bit for that to happen especially if he keeps having problems staying healthy. Just like Ridnour was ripped on on the ESPN boards because he was having to play as a starting PG and or SG or JJ Barea and the man either as a starter or leading the bench unit they were being asked to do too much and were ripped for it. It wasn't so much their fault. Some of it wasn't even the coaches fault there wasn't many other options because of the roster and or injuries. Teague can help this team if we actually play a different way.

Ok that's enough I've written WAY too much about Teague.

Teague is a career 36% shooter from beyond the arc, which is an eFG% of 54%, yet he's taking fewer 3's per game than the last 5 or 6 seasons. He's going the wrong direction! If he would just pull the trigger more often he'd be a more efficient scorer and it would be better for our overall offense.

I'm honestly not sure how much Saunders can even influence this at this stage in the season with a vet like Teague.

Q12543 wrote:Teague is a career 36% shooter from beyond the arc, which is an eFG% of 54%, yet he's taking fewer 3's per game than the last 5 or 6 seasons. He's going the wrong direction! If he would just pull the trigger more often he'd be a more efficient scorer and it would be better for our overall offense.

I'm honestly not sure how much Saunders can even influence this at this stage in the season with a vet like Teague.

Yes.