Minnesota Sports Forum

We all know that Wiggins isn't living up to his max contract and that's an understatement. In the wake of his recent criticism of Wolves fans, I suspect that other teams around the League have been calling Scott Layden or Thibodeau and inquiring into what the Wolves would expect in return for Wiggins -- not serious offers, just exploratory calls.

I don't anticipate the Wolves trading Wiggins before deadline and I don't think the Wolves will trade him next summer either. But for the first time since drafting him, I think Wiggins could be traded. I know I'd like to see the Wolves trade him, but only for a decent return and I'm not sure we can get a good enough return for him at this point.

I'm starting this thread to solicit some ideas on what you guys would consider good, but realistic trades for Wiggins either this winter or next summer. Let the ideas flow.

Nobody is trading for Wiggins. He has arguably the second worst contract in the league.

The Wiz might do John Wall just to get out from under the worst.

Otherwise it would have to be a shorter deal like Jabari's (hopefully, because it expires after this year) for Wiggins plus extra assets like a future first and/or a young player like Tyus or Okogie, depending on how soon the contract we'd take on would expire and on whether we'd be able to put any protections on the pick we'd have to give up.

Honestly, if anybody thinks we'd get a better deal than that they're under the same sort of illusions people were under when the majority of people here thought offering him the deal was a no-brainer in the first place.

I've been wrong about a lot of stuff and I'll fess up to that, but I'm really sorry to say that I was right when I said offering that contract would be a huge mistake. The sad thing is that almost everybody else in the league knows it now.

I'd give up a future first in a heartbeat to get off of that salary after this year, but I don't even know if that would get it done.

Not sure if Wiggins' contract is thought of quite THAT poorly Drew, but I do agree we would likely have to ship off another asset like a future first to unload it. He's young, athletic, and durable. And he can score points, just not efficiently. Hopefully there is some GM out there dumb enough to think he can turn Wiggins into a great player still. I just hope it's not OUR next GM!

Q12543 wrote:Not sure if Wiggins' contract is thought of quite THAT poorly Drew, but I do agree we would likely have to ship off another asset like a future first to unload it. He's young, athletic, and durable. And he can score points, just not efficiently. Hopefully there is some GM out there dumb enough to think he can turn Wiggins into a great player still. I just hope it's not OUR next GM!

That's the rub. Do the Wolves move now and unload Wiggins + asset(s) sooner than later... or wait until a new regime comes in?

What if a 4th coach fails to get anything more from Wiggins? Will his trade value get even worse (gasp)?

Teams who are rebuilding or probably will want to blow it up and get picks-

1.) Wiggins and two 1sts = Bradley Beal
2.) Wiggins and 1st = Kyle Lowry
3.) Wiggins = Whiteside
4.) Wiggins + Dieng + 1st = Whiteside + Richardson
5.) Wiggins and 1st = Bazemore
6.) Wiggins and 4 1sts = Anthony Davis = LOL

There are MANY worse contracts (related to production)....and many equally as bad....
Hayward
Porter
Whiteside
Love
Barnes
Parsons
Batum
R. Anderson
Lavine
Tyler Johnson
Crabbe
G. Hill
Turner
R. Jackson
Mozgov
etc.....the list goes on.....

I do agree it would be difficult to move Wiggins while obtaining a lot of positive assets. That being said, a team like Sacramento is actually a viable trading partner for a few simple reasons.....1) They have a ton of cap space, 2) I just don't see a top end FA signing in Sactown, 3) They have several expiring deals, which would be key for Wolves. They have a plethora of young and cheap bigs, and could afford a shot at a guy like Wiggins. But my guess is it would be nearly a pure salary dump.....expiring contracts for Wiggins. Maybe you get a guy like Jackson or Skal with expirings? Sacto has already surprised this year, and Wiggins would be a large improvement to some other guys getting minutes like Shumpert and others.

I really don't think any of those contracts are worse than Wiggins' because they are all shorter and cheaper.

Wiggins can produce points, but inefficiently. And arguably, that's WORSE than a role player as long as that role player is at least average in terms of efficiency. He's the new Carmelo only he's not even as good as Melo was. Inefficient players with high volume like Wiggins really hurt your team, especially when they don't really bring anything else to the table, and teams know that now.

Ten years ago, his contract would have been more moveable, but with the analytics movement GMs are much more attuned to the importance of efficiency, fit, and overall impact. On top of that, teams value cap flexibility much more now after the disastrous 2016 contracts got signed, so it's even harder to move bad contracts now than earlier. For on and off the court reasons, Wiggins' contract is truly one of the most toxic in the league.

Sacramento or Orlando or one of those other crappy teams would make the best targets, but we need to be honest with ourselves about how bad Wiggins is and how horrendous his contract is at a time when no team wants anything to do with contracts like that.

There is no way anybody just gives us expirings to take that contract. We'd have to include a future first and/or young talent (Tyus or Okogie) and take on some bad (but shorter) salary, depending on the scenario.

EDIT: Hayward's contract may be more expensive, but I think it definitely still has more value because it's not yet clear he won't be able to get back to being something like the player he was.

Drew, I think the only thing hurting your argument on Wiggins is that when you look at the +/- stuff over the past few seasons, he appears to be much closer to neutral than a total detriment. He doesn't turn it over much, he defends OK-ishly without fouling, and he generally makes the extra pass and keeps the ball moving. I realize these are all really basic things, but I don't find any data that suggest he single-handedly sabotages the various lineups he's in (like Crawford or Shabazz did, for example).

The volume shooting issue is a bit more complex. The question we really have to ask is if his shots were reduced to that of a role playing 3&D wing, who would take those extra shots that now belong to him and how would that impact their efficiency? For example, if we were to completely switch Covington's role in the offense versus Wiggins, what would happen to Covington's efficiency level?

Q12543 wrote:Drew, I think the only thing hurting your argument on Wiggins is that when you look at the +/- stuff over the past few seasons, he appears to be much closer to neutral than a total detriment. He doesn't turn it over much, he defends OK-ishly without fouling, and he generally makes the extra pass and keeps the ball moving. I realize these are all really basic things, but I don't find any data that suggest he single-handedly sabotages the various lineups he's in (like Crawford or Shabazz did, for example).

The volume shooting issue is a bit more complex. The question we really have to ask is if his shots were reduced to that of a role playing 3&D wing, who would take those extra shots that now belong to him and how would that impact their efficiency? For example, if we were to completely switch Covington's role in the offense versus Wiggins, what would happen to Covington's efficiency level?

I like you post. Wiggins is not amazing, the lineups that he has been in this year have been pretty neutral being a plus .7 per 100 possessions (But his top 3 lineups have been positive). Also every year just on pure +/- the wolves have been better with him on the court compared to him off the court (that is not saying much but it is something to consider).

The questions you have to ask when trading Wiggins is 1) Can you get any positive value back 2) If we trade Wiggins for cap space (Randolph and Sumpert) what does the cap space really mean, the Wolves have never added a superstar player in there history and even with players moving more in the NBA in recent history they are not flocking to small cold markets. Teague and Taj are 2 of the best signings in Wolves history. So would Wiggins for Teague and Taj be a good trade in your mind and where does that really lead us. 3) Is Wiggins that much of a negative that giving up important assets worth just getting rid of him. In my opinion one of the big problems with the Pelicans they gave up so many assets in 1st round picks to put a quick fix on things but it eliminate their chances at a superstar and superstars win in this league. So Holiday/Mirotic are good players but they are not superstars and that is why I was pumped when they traded for Mirotic because even though Mirotic is good he is not a superstar and trading that pick eliminated them from acquiring a superstar.

My conclusion is do not trade Wiggins with future assets, we have 4 years to hit on a superstar in the draft (It sucks but it is a reality) and we can't give up a shot at a superstar to unload Wiggins. I can live with trading Wiggins for cap space but that in no way fixes any problems we have. In the end it is really no win situation in this, I personally would just keep Wiggins unless we can get young talent back what I think would be hard to get but who knows if multiple teams strike out this offseason they might panic. Teams are smarter but GMs will do risky things to try and save their jobs.

When I watch Wiggins game tape the one thing that stands out, is how many bad shots he is forced into. I don't mean his long twos, because he could easily pass the ball off in most of those situations. I am talking about seemingly every game he plays with Teague or Rose in the lineup, he ends up with the ball in his hands with less than two seconds. I am sure someone can probable find a stat like that, but it seems like he goes from an inefficient scorer to average or better if it happens once every two games (which I think it does). Is it possible that is the reason for significant drop this season?

One other thing that jumps out at me is how many blatant fouls he takes on his drives to the basket, with no call from the officials. He seem to be getting those calls late in his first season and season 2. You could easily take one turnover a game of his stats based on that alone. Obviously they miss calls all the time, but I am wondering if his lack of improvement has hurt him on that front.