Minnesota Sports Forum

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering with this. I don't know how much of what we experienced in the arena came through to those of you watching on the screen. The place was like a tomb. You could probably see the arena was nearly empty. It was a stark contrast to the nearly full arena in last season's home preseason opener. The game started as it always does with player and head coach introductions. Those of us in attendance greeted Thibodeau's name a chorus of boos. But the arena was so devoid of energy tonight that even the boos seemed hollow.

Now how about the game itself? I can honestly say I never got angry during the game, which is rare for me. I guess I was just reflecting the general mood in the arena - which was more bemused and apathetic than anything. Unfortunately, that same mood seemed apparent among the Timberwolves players, both on the bench and on the court. Thibodeau was back to his standing, bellowing, barking self after his oddly subdued demeanor in LA. It was the typical negativity emenating from Thibodeau, but it seemed more pathetic than irritating tonight. I often reported last season about the joyless nature of the Wolves play on the court, even when they were winning. Well, tonight that joylessness permeated every molecule in the arena.

So we lost by 12 points (actually by 20) at home to a good team without their best player. I could go on and render my assessment of each player's performance tonight, but I don't see the point. I will mention that Josh Okogie played with a level of energy and heart that seemed out of place among his teammates. Derrick Rose, KAT and Tyus showed moments of heart, but Okogie was the only one who animated every minute of his play with grit and energy. Yet is was clear that even he wasn't having any fun out there tonight. And he certainly has a long way to go with his ballhandling, shooting and decision-making. Then there were the following old familiar themes:

1. As usual, our guys weren't moving the ball or moving without the ball. The Wolves looked like a group of guys from the local YMCA, who wondered into the arena and ended up by accident in a game against and NBA team. The Thunder ran plays, while the Wolves just ran around -- although they didn't always run very hard. But again, this was nothing new - the only difference that the Wolves didn't have Butler tonight to provide points and defense that could keep this otherwise joyless, poorly run team within competitive reach of their opponent.

2 As usual, Wiggins seemed lost out there with no offensive scheme to draw on his strengths and little effort from Wiggins himself to get the ball. Meanwhile his poor handle and bad hands were on full display tonight. At times he'd be at the 3-point line, but fail to call for the ball, never moving to where he'd be visible to KAT from the post. It seemed as if he didn't really want the ball. It would seem impossible, contrary to the laws of physics, that a player with Wiggins' talent could finish with 4 points and 4 fouls, which is of course what he did tonight. Well, at least that shows balance. To his credit, he grabbed 1 rebound and had 1 assist. Not to pick on Wiggins, since there was plenty of ugly uninspired play by his teammates.

3. As usual, our perimeter players didn't fight aggressively through screens and failed miserably to stop dribble penetration over and over again.

4. As usual our players repeatedly hesitated on 3-point shots, only to move in closer for hotly contested twos. Even Tolliver, who was jacking up threes his first game, succumbed to the same 3-point jitters we've seen from every Wolves player except LaVine since Thibodeau got here. This can't possibly be an accident; it has to reflect how they're coached in practice.

As I sat there in my usual seat watching tonight's game, I developed a better appreciation for Jimmy Butler's desire to leave. On the other hand, he's still a jerk. He had the chance to lead this team back to the playoffs and possibly through the first round - all while playing for a head coach who worships him. Yet he demanded a trade, did so at the last minute and leaked it to the public. So there's no room in my mind for excusing or forgiving what Butler's actions.

However, tonight's game just further cemented my bottom line -- the same bottom line I've had for at least a year now. Thibodeau has to go and the sooner the better. The Butler situation is clearly Thibodeau's responsibility as something he should have seen coming or suspected might come and then dealt with months ago. This is his team and his style of play. In the end, the joyless, negative malaise enveloping this team and the arena they play in all emanates from Tom Thibodeau. Every moment he remains with this organization does further damage to an already wounded organization and its relationship with its fans. Apparently, in his last conversation with Thibodeau, Pat Riley hung up the phone after telling Thibodeau he needs to get his act together, or something to that effect. I'd say that Glen Taylor needs to get his act together and get Thibodeau out of this organization immediately.

This is so much fun. I can hardly wait to write my first regular season game report. I can't think of the right emoji, but I think you all know what I mean.

We are basically running the same offense as last year with rose taking over jimmys touches.

Kat and actually wiggs seem to just roll with it abd trying to wait out thibs. However, kat does seem alot more aggressive and sees the ball more when he is away from teague and rose.

Defensively, i don't think those 2 are as bad defensively as people make them out to be.

It's going to be a long season Lip. I have a feeling Taylor won't make a move until we're well into the season, so brace yourself for on going misery. These guys don't look like they could win more than 30 games, especially with an even more potent Western Conference.

Whoever takes over next needs to absolutely clean house and try to build a team around KAT. He is the only one off limits. He needs shooters and perimeter bulldogs, which is why getting those two things in one package make Covington or Richardson such valuable trade pieces in any Butler deal.

Q12543 wrote:It's going to be a long season Lip. I have a feeling Taylor won't make a move until we're well into the season, so brace yourself for on going misery. These guys don't look like they could win more than 30 games, especially with an even more potent Western Conference.

Whoever takes over next needs to absolutely clean house and try to build a team around KAT. He is the only one off limits. He needs shooters and perimeter bulldogs, which is why getting those two things in one package make Covington or Richardson such valuable trade pieces in any Butler deal.

Q - I hope you're wrong about Taylor not making a move until we're well into the season, but I suspect you're right. I agree completely on cleaning house and building around KAT. The need to re-start our rebuild around KAT underscores the importance getting the right assets in return for Butler. It's critical that the Butler deal focus on obtaining the right kind of assets for a longer term rebuild with KAT. In other words, the Butler trade cannot be used as a last-ditch effort to get assets that might help the Wolves squeak into the playoffs this season, which is such a long shot anyway.

I agree a key part of the rebuild has to be the addition of shooters and perimeter bulldogs and I also agree that KAT is the only current roster player who should be totally off limits. However, I have a couple caveats to your parameters.

First, I think the highest priority beyond the types of players we add (shooters/perimeter bulldogs) should be talent. KAT's going to need at least one more elite player if the Wolves are ever going to be a championship contender. So while I agree with you on the value of getting Covington or Richardson in a Butler deal based on their player attributes, I actually think a higher priority would be getting a Bam Abedayo and a 1st round pk. If we end up being as bad as I think we're going to be this year, the plus is that it will likely get us a top 10 lottery pick. We just need to right front office people to make good use of that pick next summer.

Second, while I agree that no one other than KAT should be totally off limits, I'd put Okogie in an almost off-limits category. There's no doubt in my mind he's going to be the perimeter bulldog you're talking about. And with his heart, I think he'll eventually will himself into becoming something much more. My wife hasn't been immersed in basketball the way I have most of my life, but she's alway been a good judge of people and has developed a really keen sense for evaluating basketball talent. After last night's game, she said Okogie's going to be a star. She kept talking about his heart and the fire in his belly he showed throughout last night's game. It's what turned Butler into an Allstar. So while not off limits, I'd be very reluctant to part with Okogie.

I'm pretty much completely against trading Jimmy Butler to Miami and the reason is that their assets are relatively "meh" in my opinion.

Josh Richardson isn't an ideal centerpiece in any trade for a star player let alone a top-10 player in the league. He doesn't have the star-level pedigree I'm looking for and he's primarily a 3/D wing with little creativity in his arsenal. Before I continue, let me say that I do recognize the premium value 3/D players have in the game right now. I just don't see him progressing into anything more than a Kent Bazemore. And while I do like Bazemore's game, it's far from that of an All-Star caliber player, which is what we should be aiming for in return with this Butler trade. Richardson's offensive game relies on catch-and-shoot jumpers, mid-range pull-up jumpers and he'll occasionally get to the rim where he's a decent finisher. Defensively, he can guard 1-3 adequately and uses his length, athleticism, and instincts to disrupt passing lanes and protect the rim -- he's arguably the best shot-blocking guard in the league. I like him, but I don't love him, and I think the Wolves can do better in a return for Butler.

I continue to be puzzled by the hype for Bam Adebayo. He's an explosive, undersized center with practically no offensive skill besides finishing at the rim with authority and his defensive metrics are very mediocre. Granted, he was a rookie last year, and I understand that, but he's not a defensive game-changing big nor has he ever been projected to be that. I see a lot of Tristan Thompson in his game, and again, while that's solid, it's not necessarily what I'm looking for in return for an All-NBA player.

Cam -- What are your ideas for better deals than the Miami deal I'm suggesting that you would consider realistic? I'm not thrilled with my own Miami trade scenario, so I'm thirsty for better suggestions.

Camden0916 wrote:I'm pretty much completely against trading Jimmy Butler to Miami and the reason is that their assets are relatively "meh" in my opinion.

Josh Richardson isn't an ideal centerpiece in any trade for a star player let alone a top-10 player in the league. He doesn't have the star-level pedigree I'm looking for and he's primarily a 3/D wing with little creativity in his arsenal. Before I continue, let me say that I do recognize the premium value 3/D players have in the game right now. I just don't see him progressing into anything more than a Kent Bazemore. And while I do like Bazemore's game, it's far from that of an All-Star caliber player, which is what we should be aiming for in return with this Butler trade. Richardson's offensive game relies on catch-and-shoot jumpers, mid-range pull-up jumpers and he'll occasionally get to the rim where he's a decent finisher. Defensively, he can guard 1-3 adequately and uses his length, athleticism, and instincts to disrupt passing lanes and protect the rim -- he's arguably the best shot-blocking guard in the league. I like him, but I don't love him, and I think the Wolves can do better in a return for Butler.

I continue to be puzzled by the hype for Bam Adebayo. He's an explosive, undersized center with practically no offensive skill besides finishing at the rim with authority and his defensive metrics are very mediocre. Granted, he was a rookie last year, and I understand that, but he's not a defensive game-changing big nor has he ever been projected to be that. I see a lot of Tristan Thompson in his game, and again, while that's solid, it's not necessarily what I'm looking for in return for an All-NBA player.

Question Cam would you rather have Richardson and Bam or just let Butler walk and take the 20 mil in cap space.

I think the reason people including myself are fine with the Miami trade is because we don't think there is a better offer out there and Richardson and Bam are at least young and they don't suck

I have been one of thibs biggest supporters on this board eventhough I have never loved him but thought he got a bad rap on this board so I defended him.

But now it is time to fire him. The teams energy looks like we just went through a grinder of a season and not going to make the playoffs. And it's only preseason game 3.

That won't change without a coach change. So sick of Glenn Taylor, why can't we have one instant where things go toxic.

Apparently toliver was pissed last night because of the lack of energy.

Also why the fuck did KAT play, it was obvious his shoulder was hurting him. After he missed a free throw he yelled its my shoulder. Based on Twitter he was nursing it before the game. So why did we have our franchise player bang with Adams all night in a meaningless preseason game

Our house won't get in order until Taylor sells the team. I can't think of any person that objectively would look at the situation and want to come work for that idiot. Every pathetic franchise in sports have the same problem. Taylor has got to go. That is really it for me.

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:I'm pretty much completely against trading Jimmy Butler to Miami and the reason is that their assets are relatively "meh" in my opinion.

Josh Richardson isn't an ideal centerpiece in any trade for a star player let alone a top-10 player in the league. He doesn't have the star-level pedigree I'm looking for and he's primarily a 3/D wing with little creativity in his arsenal. Before I continue, let me say that I do recognize the premium value 3/D players have in the game right now. I just don't see him progressing into anything more than a Kent Bazemore. And while I do like Bazemore's game, it's far from that of an All-Star caliber player, which is what we should be aiming for in return with this Butler trade. Richardson's offensive game relies on catch-and-shoot jumpers, mid-range pull-up jumpers and he'll occasionally get to the rim where he's a decent finisher. Defensively, he can guard 1-3 adequately and uses his length, athleticism, and instincts to disrupt passing lanes and protect the rim -- he's arguably the best shot-blocking guard in the league. I like him, but I don't love him, and I think the Wolves can do better in a return for Butler.

I continue to be puzzled by the hype for Bam Adebayo. He's an explosive, undersized center with practically no offensive skill besides finishing at the rim with authority and his defensive metrics are very mediocre. Granted, he was a rookie last year, and I understand that, but he's not a defensive game-changing big nor has he ever been projected to be that. I see a lot of Tristan Thompson in his game, and again, while that's solid, it's not necessarily what I'm looking for in return for an All-NBA player.

Question Cam would you rather have Richardson and Bam or just let Butler walk and take the 20 mil in cap space.

I think the reason people including myself are fine with the Miami trade is because we don't think there is a better offer out there and Richardson and Bam are at least young and they don't suck

Bingo. That's my question too. Cam lays out a good case as to why Richardson and Bam aren't the cures to all of our ills, but how much better can we do if we just let Butler walk? Because it doesn't sound like people like Jamal Murray, Otto Porter, or other Cam favorites are going to be made available.

I think it's just a matter of where we each individually draw the line of when to pull the trigger. I'm not convinced we can do better than Josh Richardson if left to our own devices this summer. On the other hand, I do think we can do better than Winslow and a future first (for example) and I wouldn't pull the trigger for that kind of deal.