Minnesota Sports Forum

First off, this may be my last post for a while. My cousin was at the game tonight, and afterwards he summed up my thoughts perfectly in one text: "Thibs has not brought this team together. I may need to checkout for a while."

I'm right there with him. If this team doesn't show some improvement soon I gotta check out. I could live with the team playing around .500 basketball this year, but so far we are not even at last year's pace. Ugly.

That said, there is a lot of season left. But I don't think you can stay with the status quo any longer. So if I was Thibs, this is what I do:

First, insert Belly into the starting lineup for Zach. This seems like a strange move since Zach has been our best player as of late, and arguably over the entire season, but here's the reasons:

We need to get tougher and bigger on defense. While it was a small sample size, I liked what I saw in the Laker game when Belly started. Belly gives us another guy crashing the boards and offering help underneath the hoop. On offense he gives us a facilitator and 3-point shooting. Also his game is similar to Rubio's, and during that Laker game I saw some of the best ball movement of the year.

Zach becomes the first guy off the bench and #1 scoring option when he gets in the game. He can still play big minutes and finish most games. But also I think Zach and Wiggins may be too redundant right now. So by taking Zach out of the starting lineup you allow Wiggins to get the size matchup against 2's, and also he and Towns are the clear go-to scorers. It seems like when Wiggins is not getting touches he disappears out there--sometimes that's at the expense of Zach doing his thing.

Second, there's the Dunn situation. I'd do one of three things:

A) Tyus takes over the backup job, and you use Dunn as a defensive specialist. I still think you could find minutes for him, but for now he always plays with another point guard.

B) As others mentioned in the game thread, you send Dunn to the D-League. Not a bad move--he needs to play and get his mojo back. Find some offensive aggression. Let him go down there for 10 games, then bring him back up and see what happens.

C) Start Dunn and let Rubio come off the bench. Dunn's defense is the best fit with the starters where on offense he doesn't need to do much. This seems to be the way Thibs uses point guards anyway (not a big fan so far). Also this pairs Rubio with Belly on the 2nd unit, and helps other players like Cole, Bazz, and Rush who need the ball fed to them in their spots. Plus this might give Rubio more license to be aggressive. Even tonight when he hit some shots he was tentative. But I'm starting to wonder if this is more of a product of Thib's system than Rubio having an off year, because Dunn is playing the same way. The little I watched of Dunn in college I remember liking how he took guys to the hole and made things happen. Now I see none of that. And Rubio barely ever runs the pick 'n roll. When he does it usually ends up with somebody getting an open look, like tonight when G had a couple open free throw line jumpers (I think he missed them but still, those are quality looks). I remember thinking to myself, why are we not running that play with Rubio and Towns???

But regardless, I like all three of the above options with Dunn more than what we are doing now.

There may be no saving this season, because the reality is this is still a young team doing a lot of stupid things out there, and playing little to no defense. But I would make those two changes and see what happens. Belly for Zach and do something different with Dunn.

I know, I know... this won't be popular. Or it'll be met with "who cares."

Fair enough. But there are certain unwritten rules in the NBA.

Moving starters to the bench this early (especially when there's nobody on the bench forcing the issue) can lead to a coach losing those guys. And other players around the league will take notice, too.

If there's one things I'm sure of it's this: Swapping Zach's and Belly's roles would do absolutely nothing to change the trajectory of this team. Unlike Wiggins, Zach doesn't just score but rebounds as well. Zach chases down loose balls and is a much better ball-handler than Wiggins. Given all the struggles of our starting lineup the last thing we should do is replace our most consistent and overall best starter so far this season with the pretty inconsistent Belly.

While I agree with almost everything Lip wrote...

I don't get the rebounds part. There are at least 50 NBA guards who rebound the ball better than Lavine despite him getting more minutes than almost all of them. Tonight was the anomaly this season. Before tonight, he was 3.0 reb per game.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:While I agree with almost everything Lip wrote...

I don't get the rebounds part. There are at least 50 NBA guards who rebound the ball better than Lavine despite him getting more minutes than almost all of them. Tonight was the anomaly this season. Before tonight, he was 3.0 reb per game.

Look at my post again. I was comparing Zach to Wiggins. :). They average about the same, but Zach is more consistent and better on a per minute basis. Not saying much given my low bar comparison. :)

lipoli390 wrote:If there's one things I'm sure of it's this: Swapping Zach's and Belly's roles would do absolutely nothing to change the trajectory of this team. Unlike Wiggins, Zach doesn't just score but rebounds as well. Zach chases down loose balls and is a much better ball-handler than Wiggins. Given all the struggles of our starting lineup the last thing we should do is replace our most consistent and overall best starter so far this season with the pretty inconsistent Belly.

Wiggins has more total rebounds and per minute than Zach. Zach is actually currently worst rebounder in team when we look per 36 minutes numbers. Even Jones and Rush have better numbers than Zach.

Still I wouldn't replace Zach with Belly. Belly looked good against Lakers mainly because he was matched against Deng who wasn't able to beat him off the dribble. Belly at SF wouldn't work against more athletic small forwards with better handle. Still against certain teams, Belly could and probably should play some minutes as three. Portland (Harkless), Houston (Ariza), Clippers (Luc), Boston (Crowder), Orlando (Green) and Toronto (Carroll) in addition to Lakers would be probably good teams to give Belly also some minutes as small forward.

If I was Thibs, I wouldn't change starting five at least yet. I would let Ricky to run offense more often. With ball in his hands, there is bigger change that Wolves will get more easy baskets from transition or cuts etc. Then if our offense ignited by Ricky hasn't been able to create anything and there is about 10 seconds time, give ball to Wiggins.

I like the idea that Ricky would play more minutes with Belly. That could be done either by subbing Belly early in for Dieng or by subbing Ricky out early and then back in earlier than other starters. I would probably do the latter since it would give Dunn more minutes with starters.

Misty, don't tease us by writing a terrific post like that and then saying you might be checking out!

Unlike the other responses here, I agree with your ideas 100%. Zach was our most productive player by far last night, and although I didn't see the game (I'm also a little checked out right now) I have a difficult time believing Lip's report that he was solid defensively last night...he has just looked so bad on the defensive side of the ball all season, and the numbers agree.

I love several things about Belly for Zach:

1) Belly's play in Europe was extraordinary, and I still don't think that Sam and Thibs have given him enough chance here. 10 games with him in the starting lineup would tell us exactly what we have in him.

2) Zach could easily be a 6th man of the year candidate coming off the bench, and teams with great 6th men usually win a lot of ballgames. I hear Abe's point about demoting a star, but it depends how it's done. I can see telling him that he is playing really well, but that we need help off the bench. Compare his to his idol and friend Jamal Crawford, and tell him he can be even a better version of this great 6th man.

3) I was also at that Laker's game where Thibs started the tall lineup out of necessity (why do I think his best moves have been when he is forced to make them?). We just looked so much longer than the Lakers with Wig at the 2 and Belly at the 3 along with 2 seven footers, and with Belly's off-season weight loss, he seems quick enough to me to guard SF's.

So, I love this move, along with sending Dunn down and promoting Jones. The other thing I would do if I were Thibs would be to read Lip's excellent game report...especially the parts about his demeanor and the team's reaction to it. I would look in the mirror and admit that my style isn't working with this team, and I would change. Start being more positive, stop micromanaging and start letting their natural ability shine through, dial back the sideline scowling and barking, and spend more time in the film room and less on the court the day before games.

I think Thibs has signaled that he is going to make some changes, but I just don't trust his judgement to make the right ones. And I certainly don't trust his ability to be humble and make some personal changes. But if he doesn't, I see no evidence that this team can turn this around.

A 9-point loss at home to a marginal playoff team missing Favors? This board would have been calling for Sam's head. I'm calling for Thibs' head. Change, or start scouting top three players for this year's draft.

longstrangetrip wrote:

A 9-point loss at home to a marginal playoff team missing Favors? This board would have been calling for Sam's head. I'm calling for Thibs' head. Change, or start scouting top three players for this year's draft.

LST, they had 9 point home loss to Utah team also last season after all star break... So based on results against Utah, they are playing same level this year than last year.:P

Part of being a professional coach is playing the role of psychologist. Thibs obviously understands strategy, tactics, and technique. But how good is he at understanding players - ya know, the human beings underneath the jersey?

KAT had a borderline melt down after last night's game. He is pressing and playing with the weight of the world on his shoulders. He keeps saying he needs to do more and it's all his fault. At what point does Thibs step in and try to take the pressure off KAT and simplify things for him?

Q12543 wrote:Part of being a professional coach is playing the role of psychologist. Thibs obviously understands strategy, tactics, and technique. But how good is he at understanding players - ya know, the human beings underneath the jersey?

KAT had a borderline melt down after last night's game. He is pressing and playing with the weight of the world on his shoulders. He keeps saying he needs to do more and it's all his fault. At what point does Thibs step in and try to take the pressure off KAT and simplify things for him?

I think that was a concern, even for people bullish on Thibodeau.

Dealing with guys like Garnett, Pierce, Allen, et al and Noah, Deng, Boozer and even Rose might be a bit different than super duper young millenials.