Minnesota Sports Forum

Well, we came out with a win, but it's hard to be positive about this one. This is what I'd call the flip side of a moral victor -- namely a moral loss. We were at home tonight after a day's rest against a bad team and were lucky to come away with a victory. If not for Jimmy Buckets 4th quarter heroic, it would have been a really embarrassing loss.

The good news is that we finally got to see the Jimmy Butler most of us thought we had traded for. As advertised, he took over the game in the 4th and willing the team to a win. The cautionary note, however, is that he did it against a bad team. I don't think he can be nearly as effective dominating in isolation play after isolation play like tonight in games against the many better teams in the West, including the Warriors, Rockets, Spurs, Nuggets, Jazz or Blazers. That said, Jimmy's been ramping up lately and tonight was a good sign. More good news was the continuing excellence of Taj Gibson. Just imagine how horrible this night would have been without Jimmy and Taj. Yuck!!

Other than the win, Jimmy Buckets and Taj Gibson, there really isn't any good news for Wolves fans from tonight's game.

Defensively, the Wolves allowed a depleted Clippers team to shoot nearly 51% from the field and 44% from behind the arc. Rivers in particular dominated as he shot his way to a 30-point night. It wasn't luck. It was very poor defensive, especially by Teague. He made Teague look like a statute. I know Teague wasn't known for his defense when he got here, but he has to do better than he did tonight. But Teague wasn't the only problem defensively. Jordan's 8-8 from the field exposed again our defensive woes inside. I watched carefully tonight to get a sense of the problem. Yes, KAT making boneheaded defensive mistakes is a big part of it. But another part is the failure of our perimeter players to slow the guard at least a little bit on pick-and-rolls. Wiggins and even Jimmy as well as Teague were guilty of poor perimeter defense. And as much as I hate to say it, Taj made some big mistakes defensively. Being bad defensively like the Wolves is definitely a team effort.

Offensively, I can only say how excruciatingly painful and frustrating it is to watch the Wolves half-court offense. It's mainly Thibs, but Teague makes it worse because your can see more movement with purpose and fewer last-second desperation shots when Tyus is running the offense. Teague's overdribbling is beyond belief. Is is constantly putting the offense behind the eight-ball with someone forced to put up a last second contested shot just before the buzzer. As bad as Wiggins was tonight, you have to give him a lot of credit for that last second 2-pointer from around the free throw line in the 4th when Teague desperately passed him the ball after stalling the ball almost the entire shot clock. It's not the number of dribbles so much as it Teague's pointless dribbling that does nothing to disrupt the defense or create easy shots for teammates. My frustration with Teague and the half-court offense was widely shared by those around us at the game tonight. I wish it had just been tonight's game, but as most of us know, it's become a familiar pattern. Jimmy's isolation heroics won the game for us in spite of all this. There is so much offensive talent on this team. But so much of it is wasted by Thibs' ineffective, antiquated offensive system. Teague makes it worse, but I still put it mainly on Thibs.

It was unfortunate to see our one max player, Wiggins, regress again, shooting 4-15 from the field and 0-5 from behind the arc. Nothing much else from him as he managed only 3 rebounds and 1 assist. KAT was solid offensively with 15 points and 12 rebounds. He was our best 3-point shooter tonight, hitting 2 of 3 from behind the arc. Thibs should have featured Towns' 3-point shooting more tonight. Towns also showed great hustle, getting to several loose balls in the first half and pulling down some tough rebounds. But at times Towns looked so lost defensively. I wish Gorgui would hit those corner threes he missed, but grabbed 5 rebounds in 18 minutes, which helped us win the game.

Other than Butler's heroics, how did the Wolves win this game? First, thanks to Taj, KAT, Butler and Gorgui, we outrebounded the Clippers. Second, we protected the ball a lot better than the Clippers. That's where I have to give Teague credit. He overdribbles and was awfully indecisive at times, but he protected the ball. And of course, the Clippers aren't good defensively and don't force many turnovers. Finally, we scored 112 points, in spite of our frustratingly slow, iso-oriented offense. As I've said repeatedly, the Wolves generally need to score 110+ points to win games.

I still like the Wolves' talent. Thibs said in his post-game tonight that the Wolves need more practice time. O.K., maybe that's part of the problem. In any event, we're 14-10. A heck of a better spot than we were in last season at this time. And we have the talent and opportunity to catch fire and start separating ourselves from the likes of the Jazz, Blazers and Nuggets. We have a tough road game against Memphis tomorrow night. But with Conley out and the Grizzlies struggling, tomorrow night is a game the Wolves need to win. We then play the Clipper again but this time in Staples Center. Another winnable game. After that the Wolves return to Target Center for 5 straight home games against the Mavs, Sixers, Kings, Suns and Blazers. The Wolves have the talent and opportunity to win all of the next 7 games. We should expect them to win at least 5 of them, which would put the Wolves at 19-12 as they head to Denver on Dec. 20. But we'll have to play a lot better than we did tonight or last Tuesday against the Wizards to make that happen.

Agree about Teague.

The over-dribbling. The indecision. It leads to too many last-second possessions. This team MIGHT figure it out and take a "good" shot instead of settling for a worse one time and time again.

Hopefully.

As always thanks for the report, these are real fun to read like always.

We are not a aesthetically pleasing team to watch but they got it done tonight and are still on pace for 47 wins. Jimmy was fantastic and Taj played amazing once again. We are such a grind to watch but I will always take ugly wins over, well played losses, I have had enough of them over the years. Kat was so lost tonight and Jim P pointed it out multiple times and Jim P was like what is Kat doing. The one thing that does annoy me more than anything about Kat is he gets beat down the court consistently on the break. I understand he plays big minutes but there are multiple possessions a game where his player get an easy bucket or the other players have to cover for him and an easy bucket happens else where (happened on a late 3 in tonight's game). Starting Centers have made 19 straight shots against the wolves so that is good.

But a win is a win and like you said a lot of winnable games on the docket, lets got at least 5 and 2 over the next 7. We have the talent and I hope we finish it off and gain separation.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Agree about Teague.

The over-dribbling. The indecision. It leads to too many last-second possessions. This team MIGHT figure it out and take a "good" shot instead of settling for a worse one time and time again.

Hopefully.

Some of it is so confusing, like what are we trying to run, is it teague fault or thibs. It usually ends up being an iso at the top of the key and if not, Kat comes and sets a terrible screen and then we get a terrible last second shot. I do like teague and I still believe when he has it going our ceiling is so much higher than with Ricky but it is so frustrating to watch.

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Agree about Teague.

The over-dribbling. The indecision. It leads to too many last-second possessions. This team MIGHT figure it out and take a "good" shot instead of settling for a worse one time and time again.

Hopefully.

Some of it is so confusing, like what are we trying to run, is it teague fault or thibs. It usually ends up being an iso at the top of the key and if not, Kat comes and sets a terrible screen and then we get a terrible last second shot. I do like teague and I still believe when he has it going our ceiling is so much higher than with Ricky but it is so frustrating to watch.

Geek -- I think some of it is Teague because our offense runs better with Tyus running it. I was watching for that tonight. But I still put most of it on Thibs. Tyus is a natural PG who is better equipped than Teague to overcome a neanderathal offensive system. :). I think Teague is still trying to find his way so I'm still inclined to cut him slack.

kekgeek1 wrote:As always thanks for the report, these are real fun to read like always.

We are not a aesthetically pleasing team to watch but they got it done tonight and are still on pace for 47 wins. Jimmy was fantastic and Taj played amazing once again. We are such a grind to watch but I will always take ugly wins over, well played losses, I have had enough of them over the years. Kat was so lost tonight and Jim P pointed it out multiple times and Jim P was like what is Kat doing. The one thing that does annoy me more than anything about Kat is he gets beat down the court consistently on the break. I understand he plays big minutes but there are multiple possessions a game where his player get an easy bucket or the other players have to cover for him and an easy bucket happens else where (happened on a late 3 in tonight's game). Starting Centers have made 19 straight shots against the wolves so that is good.

But a win is a win and like you said a lot of winnable games on the docket, lets got at least 5 and 2 over the next 7. We have the talent and I hope we finish it off and gain separation.

Geek -- Good point on winning versus aesthetics. Like you, I'll take winning. But the aesthetics stand in the way of this team making the most out of the talent we have. That's what troubles me. As for KAT, there was one play where KAT switched from backpeddling to turning and running as he defended the ballhandler near the paint. It was hillarious and sad at the same time. :). Regarding him not getting back on fast breaks, I'm convinced that it's mainly due to two things in addition to fatigue. First, he's actually pretty slow-footed. There's no fixing that unfortunately. Second, he's typically battling for the rebound in the paint as the fast break begins. I'm honestly not worried about his effort. He's a gamer. I'm concerned about his brain. He's obviously a smart guy, but he's got to stop making the same boneheaded defensive mistakes over and over!

I want to make another point about KAT's foot speed. KAT is so skilled and big that he can still be an elite player without elite foot speed. But one of my overall concerns is the Wolves general lack of quickness/speed in a League of increasingly super quick teams. That's another reason I'm not particularly interested in trading for D. Jordan. I love his size, but if anything, our biggest needs are more quickness and 3-point shooting.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Agree about Teague.

The over-dribbling. The indecision. It leads to too many last-second possessions. This team MIGHT figure it out and take a "good" shot instead of settling for a worse one time and time again.

Hopefully.

I do think Teague has some indecisiveness. I wish he would let some 3's fly or use and escape dribble and take them. One thing I have noticed is the last couple games he has located to the corners for 3's. That's not really been part of his game this year and not a whole lot in his career. It's worth mentioning he is playing at the lowest usuage rate of his career as a starter. Ive seen plenty of Wolves primary ball handlers dribble plenty over the years. It seems to be a bit of a trend maybe that should be added to your stubborn MN thread. That reminds me of a guy I went to college with that claimed and thought he was a great scorer. We decided he must have counted each dribble as a point. This led to a few of us counting how many "points" various players had and chastising people for not dribbling more.

On the other hand Tyus in the first half looked very decisive. He attacked the basket a couple times and when Evans was pressuring him he seemed much less concerned than usual when he takes his time protects the ball etc. It was good to see.

One thought about the Towns spin around having his back to the guy he was defending...one possible explanation is he was getting in position to rebound. I'm doubtful that was his intent but I suppose it's possible. The other day i was listening to a podcast and they brought up the point about sometimes the best thing you can do in some situations is not contest and get in position for the possible rebound. They said at times the optics are not good but there were times it's a smart play of the numbers. They also pointed out that you may be giving up and easy offensive rebound if you leave your guy. I remember people ripping Love for just getting position for a rebound this all those years. Maybe he wasn't just hunting stats after all and was making a smart play. :)

We're disciplined with the ball. It's a huge overlooked point on this board I find and the criticism of Teague seems to be linked to missing this point. We're 4th lowest turnovers In the league. The vets have been huge in this area for us. We're playing disciplined, ball control basketball on the offensive side. And to think Butler and Teague are scoring below their averages for efficiency. Who cares how it looks, it's working.

thedoper wrote:We're disciplined with the ball. It's a huge overlooked point on this board I find and the criticism of Teague seems to be linked to missing this point. We're 4th lowest turnovers In the league. The vets have been huge in this area for us. We're playing disciplined, ball control basketball on the offensive side. And to think Butler and Teague are scoring below their averages for efficiency. Who cares how it looks, it's working.

That's an important perspective, Doper. That's why I like this message board. A lot of good insights with different perspectives.