Minnesota Sports Forum

Just under a year ago, a lot of us, myself included, were at least somewhat happy about drafting Dunn. Now, people barely even talk about him.

This is probably for two reasons. First, we're always super excited and hopeful about guys right around draft time, so the hope (and the hype) are always a bit on overdrive for a guy in his first summer (keep that in mind when you go crazy over us drafting *insert name here*). Second, Dunn's rookie season was a disappointment.

I wonder what the rest of you think about Dunn at this point. I'm still confident he can become at least a defensive ace, at best a guy like Tony Allen or maybe more realistically like Iman Shumpert. He was so disruptive defensively for us last year. He got more blocks and steals per game than Wiggins, who was playing well over double the minutes. In an ideal world, his offense will come along and he could become a Marcus Smart or even Avery Bradley type of guy, a big plus defensively who can also help us offensively.

But he looked so bad offensively last year, and his shot in particular was cringe-inducing, so it was tough to keep him on the floor. If I were him and the Wolves, I'd be getting him doing the following things:

First, I hope he will try to develop a relatively dependable catch-and-shoot three. Even if all he does for us offensively is provide a consistent 3 point threat and spread the floor while playing off the ball, I think it's worth keeping him on the court for many more minutes because of his defensive impact. He shot 28% last year, while Rubio shot 30% in a record year for him. Ideally, Dunn could get up closer to 35%, and if he could make it halfway there next year while not being streaky like Muhammad, then that would be good. Maybe he could really try to become a bit of a corner specialist or something. And he needs to take those 3s instead of all the long 2s and mid-range floaters. He needs to Mike D'Antonify his shot-chart a bit, if you know what I mean. This chart is an analytic nightmare.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2016-2017/player/9433/kris-dunn/shotchart/

Second, I hope he will learn and master some very basic offensive plays that lead to passing and scoring options from the PG position and get comfortable and confident running them. Offensively last year, he looked like he didn't really have a plan with the ball in his hands: he'd dribble too much waiting for movement that wasn't happening, then make an aggressive cut with the ball that would lead to a strangely awkward shot. His problem seemed to be in part mental. He looked like he was overthinking his jumpers and underthinking his drives, if that makes sense, rushing bad shots near the basket while hesitating and releasing ugly jumpers from the longer side of mid-range. If he was running consistent action with the same guys, he might feel more comfortable with his decision making, and hopefully become a more fluid and confident decision-maker who can both score and pass. Running the point is the hardest thing to do in the NBA, but he doesn't have to be Steve Nash. He "just" needs to limit bad shots and, to a lesser degree, turnovers, while making the right basketball decisions in terms of passing or shooting. That season finale he had 16 assists. We don't need that from him. But we do need 4 or 5 assists with an AST/TO ratio north of 2.5, rather than the 2 it was at most of last year. For reference, Ricky's A/TO rate was 3.5 and Tyus' was 4, both of which are well above league average.

Third, he has got to improve as a FT shooter, and assuming he does, then tighten up that handle and learn when to draw fouls when he does commit to driving to the basket. There's no reason a guy that athletic should be settling for so many awkward floaters and layups he's not comfortable with when he could draw contact a bit more often. Wiggins and even Rubio draw fouls at a 14 and 12% clip, respectively, while Dunn's just under 7% (LaVine also needs to improve here, at just under 8%).

Fourth, I hope he learns to cut down on the fouls a bit. I don't want him to give up the aggressiveness, but just cut the foul rate down, which was too high last year.

Finally, I wonder whether Thibs should consider getting him out there earlier playing off the ball with more starters. He could concentrate on defense and catch-and-shoot 3s (hopefully, assuming he shows some improvement), running the floor in transition (which is still a strength of his), and not worrying about running the offense in the half court or being anything other than a 4th or 5th offensive option. The problem is 3 point shooting if Rubio doesn't also show he can get a little closer to that relatively hot April he had from 3.

What do you guys think? What's Dunn's role going forward, and what do you think about those 5 "hopes?"

I would do the opposite of focusing on outside shooting. Sticking him in the corner is not who he is offensively and it's a waste of his physical talents. Lavine and Wiggins don't make enough plays for others when they have the ball for me to be comfortable putting the PG in the corner. He should work on his handle, finishing in traffic and his free throw shot this summer. Get to the bucket with his size and athleticism and make the defense do something. Then either make the right pass or take the shot. That's what he did in college and that's why he looked so out of sorts here last year. He didn't get to do any of that. It's not the worst thing in the world to get Wiggins and Zach to do more off the ball and play off a true lead guard who can set them up for easy looks if they make the right cuts to the hoop. And this is when the pro-Ricky crowd comes in, but Ricky just hasn't been a good enough scorer for it to make sense to have him run everything and that's why you see Thibs go to point Wiggins even though he doesn't pass well out of dribble penetration yet.

People forget, but Dunn was top 5 or 10 in assists per game in college over multiple seasons. He makes good passes. He turns the ball over too, but he makes a lot of good plays also. I don't think he should be the focus of the offense playing off him all game long, but it should be more like how he played in college where he lead the offense about half the time and played off the ball the other half the time. The foundation of NBA offense is still dribble penetration and making the right play out of that whether that be scoring or making the right pass and we just have nobody who does both well. I think Dunn could be that guy for stretches of games.

Good thoughts Drew.

I was very much in favor of drafting Dunn and my position hasn't changed, although I didn't quite anticipate the degree to which he'd struggle running an offense and scoring. I was very impressed though at his defense, toughness, and tenacity, characteristics that are sorely lacking in most of our other young players.

I think he's a keeper, even if he "only" becomes an elite defensive role player off the bench. But I also think we have to keep trying him at PG for another year or so to see if he can eventually figure things out there.

As for the summer, he should certainly work on all the things you mention, but I think he needs to be "the guy" running the Wolves offense in Summer League. Tyus did this last year, with Dunn playing mostly off the ball. He needs to play full-time PG this summer and regain his confidence. Then hopefully he can build off it going into camp.

I've posted something like this before, but here are the players in league history that have posted at least 4.5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 1 block per 36 minutes:

Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Dwyane Wade
Clyde Drexler
Draymond Green
Eric Bledsoe
Kris Dunn

Now, Dunn did not play a ton of minutes against starting level players, so who knows if he could reach these averages if he really was playing 36 minutes per game (I suspect he wouldn't reach the blocks number), but still, that is pretty impressive company. Even if you lower the blocks to .5 per 36 minutes, it's an impressive list of names.

He was too good in college for him to be THIS bad on offense. It's easier for a player to refine his offensive game to "passable" than it is to refine his "do shit" game. I like Dunn's starting point and think he will ultimately be a very good role player and may be even something better.

I think part of the reason why nobody is talking about Dunn is there isn't much new to talk about unless there is some new info. The shot chart you provided is a bit interesting.

Looking at that shot chart it looks as if he shot more and better on one side of the floor over the other. As for shooting from the corners He actually shot a better percentage from 3's that weren't on the corners. That's actually a bit of a good sign. I like guys that you want attacking the defense being able to hit 3's nearer the middle of the floor. Overall Dunn shot the ball better as the year went on and to me he seemed to be getting it a little more. He only took 9 FT in the last 3 months but he did make 7 of them.

As for what role he should be playing in SL (can't wait to see him and Tyus play) I think he and Tyus should keep sharing the lead guard duties to some extent but I also think both guys could benefit from Dunn playing more as the PG and Tyus looking to score. I think Tyus actually has some skills and talent to be a ball handling scorer/playmaker like Corey Joseph but a different skill set. The Wolves could really use a combo guard that can handle the ball and hit 3's and score a few other ways. I wouldn't expect Tyus to do that gong into this season for any significant role but it's not crazy either especially down the road.

Personally I think Dunn's struggles was a combination of his skill set being behind where it needed to be both as a ball handler and as a shooter PLUS he is a good kid he wants to be a good PG and sometimes I think he just couldn't let go of trying to make the right play especially when his skills getting offense weren't there yet. If he can get more comfortable just playing ball and even just improve his ball handling he could make a pretty decent jump. That would help his shooting too and a lot of shooting is confidence. After his one season I have faith in him because his defensive potential is so impressive he only has to improve to be a slightly below average offensive player to be really valuable. Pick out a meh offensive PG that's probably a top backup on a good team at best and give him Dunn's length and athletic ability and if he does become an elite defender...suddenly that guy is someone you would really like to have on your roster. I think Dunn can even become average or better offensively. He doesn't have to be a star on that end if h really does become elite defensively and it looks that way.

Defensively.

Got up into guys.

Team defender.

Help defender even blocking shots like he was a big.

Got into passing lanes.

He seemed to understand how to take away things from other players which is a very high level skill for a rookie no matter how old they are. I don't think many other Wolves were good at this at all.

In general he was "Hard to play against"

Pulled down some crazy rebounds.

Put up a fight when switched onto bigger players.

He also fouled too much

At times got beat which is expected because he is a rookie.

I don't think Tyus plays summer league. Traditionally that's a two year deal and you only go back past that when you are trying to make a roster. I think summer league this year will be all Dunn and our 7th pick leading the way.

khans2k5 wrote:I don't think Tyus plays summer league. Traditionally that's a two year deal and you only go back past that when you are trying to make a roster. I think summer league this year will be all Dunn and our 7th pick leading the way.

You may be right. He might get the play a couple games and sit treatment also. An arguement could be made that having a PG like Tyus out there could help other players play well. He has played 97 career NBA games mostly in limited minutes and turned 21 a few weeks ago. It could still make sense to have him out there developing. It's not like Tyus has arrived. I guess I shouldn't be shocked if he doesn't play but I will be disappointed. I like watching a Tyus play.

The other point to be made is that since this franchise has a d-league team now they may want to try out and give a legit shot (instead of playing Tyus) for some young PG that could end up on their d-league roster in one way or another.

I was and still am super high on Dunn. I still see a top 10 PG in this league. His ceiling for me has always been a better scoring, slightly less passing ability Rondo.

Its difficult transitioning as a rookie PG, and extremely difficult when you have such a short leash and so few minutes. The fact that he had an impact was exciting, not underwhelming like many state.

If I was Thibs I would trade Rubio in a package for a 3/4, 4, or a lottery pick this draft and let Dunn take over next season.

TheFuture wrote:I was and still am super high on Dunn. I still see a top 10 PG in this league. His ceiling for me has always been a better scoring, slightly less passing ability Rondo.

Its difficult transitioning as a rookie PG, and extremely difficult when you have such a short leash and so few minutes. The fact that he had an impact was exciting, not underwhelming like many state.

If I was Thibs I would trade Rubio in a package for a 3/4, 4, or a lottery pick this draft and let Dunn take over next season.

But we already have the assets to get a 3/4 or 4. I like Dunn too, but I would not be comfortable handing him the keys to our offense next season. I think what we hope for is that Rubio serves as that veteran bridge PG until Dunn is ready to take over the role, which is far from a certainty at this point. He was simply awful offensively last season - no other way to put it.

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:I was and still am super high on Dunn. I still see a top 10 PG in this league. His ceiling for me has always been a better scoring, slightly less passing ability Rondo.

Its difficult transitioning as a rookie PG, and extremely difficult when you have such a short leash and so few minutes. The fact that he had an impact was exciting, not underwhelming like many state.

If I was Thibs I would trade Rubio in a package for a 3/4, 4, or a lottery pick this draft and let Dunn take over next season.

But we already have the assets to get a 3/4 or 4. I like Dunn too, but I would not be comfortable handing him the keys to our offense next season. I think what we hope for is that Rubio serves as that veteran bridge PG until Dunn is ready to take over the role, which is far from a certainty at this point. He was simply awful offensively last season - no other way to put it.

I disagree. Wasting more time with Ricky is pointless now. We won't beat the warriors in the next few years, and Ricky will be gone when his contract is up. We absolutely should trade him now while his value is higher.

Also, Dunn isn't atrocious offensively. He is misused. He isn't an off the bench scoring guard like patty mills. He is a defensive stopper and a playmaker. Those types don't shine with spot minutes. Give a player like him 10 minutes and he is going to try to do far too much in that time, which will result in errors. The guy needs minutes to get into a flow, and the staff needs to allow him to push through errors. He is the perfect fit with Wiggins, LaVine, and Kat. he is an excellent defender already, and we play iso ball. We dont need a guy to make ALL the plays like Rubio has to in order to be effective. Our core 3 create plenty, and Dunn has more of an offensive arsenal thab Rubio. He will have a larger impact on this team than Rubio if given the opportunity. Mark my words.