Can We Have a Thoughtful, Considerate Discussion about This?

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Whenever the subject of Andrew Wiggins comes up, the thread gets nasty. I don't know how many times I got roasted in the last couple years for criticizing him, and I know some anti-Wiggins guys have not always been tolerant of the pro-Wiggins argument.

But I'm asking for a fair discussion about this proposal--we should trade Andrew Wiggins in the next few days.

If we don't, I'm afraid we might be looking at the best team we will have for a long time. Here's why: his contract.

It's obvious we are going to give Towns and Butler the max, and I pray they both take it because they both deserve it. But with Wiggins' contract, that will eat up so much of our cap space, there won't be room for any other decent players. As Towns and Butler move onto their max contracts, we'll have to downgrade from guys like Taj, Gorgui, and Teague, which is why we might be looking at the best team we'll ever have if we keep Wiggins' contract.

I hope someday we have a trio of superstars legitimately worth three max contracts. Maybe the best way to be competitive at the top is a three-headed superstar monster (ideally a PG along with Butler and Towns) with the right role players and a decent player or two on rookie contracts. Given the popularity of Butler and Towns, I think it would definitely be possible to attract a free agent of that caliber. Or, if we can't find the perfect third guy for a max, then just a max for Butler and Towns and spread out the rest of the money wisely. But if Andrew Wiggins is eating up that max contract he just signed, I don't see how we can possibly get there.

Why trade him now? Even if you are not as skeptical about Wiggins as a player, it's hard to deny that other teams are not going to be eager to pay him that kind of money when the big contract kicks in, and therefore trading him in the future is probably going to be even harder and require us to give up assets to dump the contract. In fact, another year of play consistent with what he's shown is going to make that contract look even worse. I'm happy about his defensive improvements this year, and his offense is good enough that I think he's still tradeable to the right team despite his contract, but I'm pretty sure that is going to be widely viewed one of the most overpriced contracts in the league in a fairly short time and we should move it now.

What should we trade him for? Honestly, I'd be happy with a wing who could contribute this year whose contract comes off the books in the next year or two. If we could get a future first, I'd be thrilled. Or maybe a rookie, even one who hasn't made much impact yet. Even if the rookie flames out, we could be off his contract in a year and a half and have the cap space. If he works out, we could have a good player on a cheap rookie contract. I've got a couple people in mind, but I'd be surprised if their teams would move them. Then again, who knows? Who are the most desperate GMs out there? I bet we could find a serviceable wing to take Wiggins' place the rest of the season and give KAT and Butler and even Gibson more shots.

Most commentators are arguing that the Clippers got the better end of the Blake deal because they got out from his contract and got cap flexibility moving forward. I think that's a bit extreme, but it's a fair take. And Blake is a much better player than Wiggins, even if you consider the age difference and bigger contract.

This might sound like a hot take, but some of us were saying we should have traded him earlier or at least not offered him that extension and looked to trade him during the season, so this shouldn't totally come out of the blue. But I really think we should trade Andrew Wiggins before February 8th.

Can we have a reasonable, respectful discussion about this?

[thedoper]

I have said multiple times we will be able to trade Wiggins with his contract to Toronto moving forward. This is barring injury of course. There is no doubt in my mind with my knowledge of the Toronto ownership group (Maple Leaf Sports and not Masai) that they would jump on any Wiggins deal they could provided he continues his slow ascent to being a relative star in the NBA. My only worry about Wiggins contract in relation to our team is that we have a colossal idiot as the owner of our team who will eventually put pressure on Thibs to be thrifty as the primary objective. Wiggins has year by year made improvements in his game. When he stops doing that I will join the call for trading him.

[AbeVigodaLive]

1. So they could trade him now and only have to deal with the $8M or whatever his contract is this season? If you want to trade him... I assume that makes him a lot more movable.

2. How many teams are out there who want to pay Wiggins the max for the next 5 years?

3. This is the Wolves best season in 13 seasons... how is the fanbase going to respond to possibly taking a step back (after only 54 games of decent success) with this trade with the other eye on the future? Don't we want to enjoy the here and now instead of the "promise of hope" tomorrow?



[Note: I'd also add that it's doubtful for it to happen considering the Wolves just signed the guy a few months ago... but the Blake Griffin "You're a Clipper for life! ... or at least until we trade you 50 games later" saga has taught us how fickle loyalty can be.]

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I have said multiple times we will be able to trade Wiggins with his contract to Toronto moving forward. This is barring injury of course. There is no doubt in my mind with my knowledge of the Toronto ownership group (Maple Leaf Sports and not Masai) that they would jump on any Wiggins deal they could provided he continues his slow ascent to being a relative star in the NBA. My only worry about Wiggins contract in relation to our team is that we have a colossal idiot as the owner of our team who will eventually put pressure on Thibs to be thrifty as the primary objective. Wiggins has year by year made improvements in his game. When he stops doing that I will join the call for trading him.

That's an interesting take. He has improved defensively this year, I'll give him that. Still, I'm not totally sold that Toronto would take him just because he's from Toronto. Wouldn't it be better to sell when there are more potential buyers now?

[TAFKASP]

My only comment to Drew would be that no team that will be willing to trade for him after this season because of his contract will trade for him now either. They're not stupid, they know the contract is there and they'd be responsible for it.

I'm not saying to trade him. I'm not saying don't trade him. I'm only saying if the contract is the singular reason nobody will take him then he's already untradeable.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'll be fair. No, we shouldn't trade him in the next few days. All the other Wiggins arguments have been talked about ad nauseam in this forum. But I can answer the question you took roughly 10 paragraphs to ask. The answer is no.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

1. So they could trade him now and only have to deal with the $8M or whatever his contract is this season? If you want to trade him... I assume that makes him a lot more movable.

2. How many teams are out there who want to pay Wiggins the max for the next 5 years?

3. This is the Wolves best season in 13 seasons... how is the fanbase going to respond to possibly taking a step back (after only 54 games of decent success) with this trade with the other eye on the future? Don't we want to enjoy the here and now instead of the "promise of hope" tomorrow?



[Note: I'd also add that it's doubtful for it to happen considering the Wolves just signed the guy a few months ago... but the Blake Griffin "You're a Clipper for life! ... or at least until we trade you 50 games later" saga has taught us how fickle loyalty can be.]

Hey Abe,

1. Yes, I think he's way more moveable with his smaller contract, but we'd have to move it before the deadline. If we traded him in the future, we'd have to take back a lot more salary.

2. That's the big question. Or, more specifically, what would teams be willing to trade in order to pay Wiggins the max for the next 5 years? I really don't know the answer to that, but I'd be curious to find out.

3. How big of a step back do you think the team would take if we replaced Wiggins with an average vet wing? I'm not sure. Personally I don't think it would be that much. I'm sure fans would be unhappy, but I'd rather have the chance to make them extremely happy in a couple years if we could be competitive at the highest levels rather than think we're about to plateau as a mid-tier playoff team, which I think this contract could likely do to us.

[thedoper]

I have said multiple times we will be able to trade Wiggins with his contract to Toronto moving forward. This is barring injury of course. There is no doubt in my mind with my knowledge of the Toronto ownership group (Maple Leaf Sports and not Masai) that they would jump on any Wiggins deal they could provided he continues his slow ascent to being a relative star in the NBA. My only worry about Wiggins contract in relation to our team is that we have a colossal idiot as the owner of our team who will eventually put pressure on Thibs to be thrifty as the primary objective. Wiggins has year by year made improvements in his game. When he stops doing that I will join the call for trading him.

That's an interesting take. He has improved defensively this year, I'll give him that. Still, I'm not totally sold that Toronto would take him just because he's from Toronto. Wouldn't it be better to sell when there are more potential buyers now?

I don't know if we're looking at any greater return now than we would be then from Toronto. I know the Toronto angle sounds simplistic, but all of the Canadian national sports media is in Canada, Canada is an intensely nationalistic country, and Toronto fans remember vividly being burned by players wanting to leave that team that didn't want to be there. The almost daily narrative for their hockey team (who is owned by the same company) has been there needs to be more effort to sign homegrown (Ontario) talent. The cycle of Lowry/Derozan is going to be winding down 2 years from now and Wiggins will be sitting there, somewhere likely around borderline all star talent unless he takes a huge leap in the meantime. I am already assuming Wiggins will sign in Toronto in his next free agency opportunity anyway. I think people don't really get how much being Canadian and being from Toronto means to people who are from there. Drake sings about the "six" like it should have already been known by everyone and that it is on par with the other great cities of the world like New York. In reality I think being Canadian and more specifically from Toronto explains so much about Wiggins, his character, and his demeanor on and off the court.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

My only comment to Drew would be that no team that will be willing to trade for him after this season because of his contract will trade for him now either. They're not stupid, they know the contract is there and they'd be responsible for it.

I'm not saying to trade him. I'm not saying don't trade him. I'm only saying if the contract is the singular reason nobody will take him then he's already untradeable.

Do you really think nobody would take him? I mean, not even straight up for some random expiring vet wing? I gotta think a team like the Kings might bite, right? Bulls? Mavs? Suns? Nets? Hawks? Those teams will have cap space and are clearly not free agent destinations.

[AbeVigodaLive]

1. So they could trade him now and only have to deal with the $8M or whatever his contract is this season? If you want to trade him... I assume that makes him a lot more movable.

2. How many teams are out there who want to pay Wiggins the max for the next 5 years?

3. This is the Wolves best season in 13 seasons... how is the fanbase going to respond to possibly taking a step back (after only 54 games of decent success) with this trade with the other eye on the future? Don't we want to enjoy the here and now instead of the "promise of hope" tomorrow?



[Note: I'd also add that it's doubtful for it to happen considering the Wolves just signed the guy a few months ago... but the Blake Griffin "You're a Clipper for life! ... or at least until we trade you 50 games later" saga has taught us how fickle loyalty can be.]

3. How big of a step back do you think the team would take if we replaced Wiggins with an average vet wing? I'm not sure. Personally I don't think it would be that much. I'm sure fans would be unhappy, but I'd rather have the chance to make them extremely happy in a couple years if we could be competitive at the highest levels rather than think we're about to plateau as a mid-tier playoff team, which I think this contract could likely do to us.

Fans of the worst NBA franchise (arguably) in the middle of a 13-year playoff drought might not be the most pragmatic, patience, understanding bunch.

While I'm not disagreeing with your premise (the contract worries me greatly), I just don't know how smoothly it plays publicly.