Minnesota Sports Forum

The great teams in this league separate themselves with their starting units - or a majority of their starting unit with one key sub (think of the Warriors "lineup of death" with Iggy or the Spurs with Ginobilli in there at SG off the bench). Other than perhaps one super-sub, their bench basically just needs to be "good enough".

Based on the first 20 games, I actually think our bench has been "good enough" this season. They aren't great, but with the exception of only a game or two, they aren't the primary reason we've lost 14 games. It's usually our starters that shoot themselves in the foot, giving up horrific second half runs time and again.

Therefore, my grades overall are more generous to this group since it appears to me these guys are playing better against their peers relative to the starters:

Kris Dunn - NBA-ready on defense, not NBA-ready on offense. It's the simplest way to summarize Dunn's impact. There is no question he is all that he was hyped to be on defense. He definitely seems like a "Thibs guy" - tough, fights over screens, mixes it up with big guys in the paint, never gives up even when initially beaten on a play, etc. Offensively, he has been a borderline disaster - loose handles, poor passes, unreliable shooter. His last game was very positive in this regard and hopefully he will start turning a corner. Grade: C

Nemanja Bjelica - Many of us had high hopes for Bjelly coming into this season, but he's been underwhelming more often than not....at least on the surface. When you dig deeper into the advanced stats, you realize that his defensive metrics are stellar. Teams don't score nearly at the rate they normally do against the Wolves with him in the game. Could he be the anti-Dieng - a player acquired for his offense primarily, but then ends up being much better defensively than expected (for Dieng it was the opposite situation)? It's too early to conclude anything, but the numbers suggest that so far he is on the floor when we play our best team defense. Grade: B+

Cole Aldrich - Cole was one of our offseason signings that many viewed as a nice bargain. He plugged the hole of needing a big, physical dude that could bang around on the interior and plug things up a bit. I think he's done this quite well, as he leads the team in defensive rebound % and has a very positive net rating, similar to Bjelica. For what we paid him and what we needed him to do, I feel like he has absolutely held up his end of the bargain. I also think Bjelica's defensive rating wouldn't be as good without playing next to Aldrich. Grade: A-

Shabazz Muhammed - Again, this is a guy that on the surface seems to be having a pretty inconsistent year. Many of us see him doing the same things he's always done: Tunnel vision on forays to the hoop; quick shots; inconsistent outside shot; can't go left. Yet here again....look at who has one of the highest net ratings on the squad along with the other two guys I just mentioned - and again, it's mostly because of defense. If the team through 20 games is scoring more points than the opposition when he's in the game, it's hard for me to give him a really poor grade (as much as I want to!). Grade: B-

I'm not going to grade the other bench guys, including Tyus Jones, because they just haven't played enough. These four have been regular members of the rotation from Day One. That being said, I think we all saw some very positive signs from Tyus when he has played this season. He definitely feels like a guy that could fulfill his potential of being a very good backup in this league.

Good post Q. A couple thoughts.

I know Belly has been frustrating at times but he is a bench player. That's what guys that aren't starters do. The reality is though when watching him he looks more like the guy we thought we were getting offensively. He has almost doubled his 3 point attemp rate. He has been attacking and even if it's a bit of a mixed bag I'd rather see that than him defer like he is just some dude out there. I had noticed a couple advanced metrics as well. On touches in the paint he has by far the highest of the Wolves like 1.74 or something which seems really good.

I think you were right to give the bench positive marks. I know they have been brutal offensively but how many times this season have they held the score or cut into the lead? If that group can start hitting some shots it could be pretty good. Like you said somewhat shockingly it's the defense that has been more of a positive. David Aldridge mentioned how the 2nd unit looks more together on that end than the first group which is a bit of a surprise. He said guys are often more where they are supposed to be and he even mentioned Bazz when saying that! I think Bazz has been solid although often he hasn't had a difficult matchup but...we have seen him let just about anyone score on him that isn't happening this year. His positioning his distance when he lays off a player is more disciplined. I'm not suggesting Bazz is some defensive savant now but I've seen growth on that area in awareness which was probably THE biggest flaw for him. In addition he seems to be playing less selfish and even trying to make some passes that no way he would have done in previous years he would have just taken the shot. He has played more within the team which is partly why he hasn't gone off for a bunch of points he hasn't just forced himself as much.

Overall there is still obviously a lot of improvement from this group that needs to be made for this team to take a step forward. I think there is certainly the potential to do so espcially if Rush can get healthy. It's not an undersized group either with Dunn, Bazz (who has played plenty of minutes basically as a SG by my eye) Belly, Aldrich and whoever else they put in there except Tyus but often if he is in there is another combo guard he is matched up with but yeah. If Aldrich can keep playing relatively well I think it's going to help all those guys and as Aldridge said he sees Thibs using Lavine with that group a lot with good results.

Monster, My theory with the bench defense is that we in reality have two plus defenders in Aldrich and Dunn and they in turn help everyone else. But that's all Thibs needs. If you give a great defensive coach like Clifford, Thibs, or Skiles just a couple of inherently good defenders, he can coach up everyone else into a solid unit.

The problem with our starters is that there is only one plus defender - Rubio - and he's not been good this year. So Thibs was dealt a poor hand to work with, regardless of their athleticism and length. He actually has a better hand to work with on that second unit....at least so far.

Q -- During the Wolves front-office overhaul they were reported to have hired some sharp folks including some with advanced stats knowledge. I wonder if they are coming to some of the same conclusions regarding # of plus defenders in both units.

It would be interesting to see a decent-sized sample of Cole/KAT/Wigs/Zach/Dunn to see how that group does defensively.

Wile E Coyote wrote:Q -- During the Wolves front-office overhaul they were reported to have hired some sharp folks including some with advanced stats knowledge. I wonder if they are coming to some of the same conclusions regarding # of plus defenders in both units.

It would be interesting to see a decent-sized sample of Cole/KAT/Wigs/Zach/Dunn to see how that group does defensively.

The challenge though is that you have to look at it relative to the competition. Would Aldrich show similar results as a starter if he were swapped in for Dieng? Conversely, would Dieng's defensive metrics suddenly sky-rocket, having the benefit of playing against opposing bench units?

From a pure eye-test perspective, Dunn absolutely looks like the real deal defensively. I don't think he's perfect, but I think he will eventually be a beast. We need the equivalent of him in one of our bigs. I don't think it's quite Aldrich and it's certainly not Dieng or KAT (yet).

Also, it's pretty damn disappointing to me that Wiggins and LaVine still show so poorly in defensive metrics. This is their 3rd year and I would have thought more progress would have been made by now.

At some point, I have to believe an injury to one of our starting bigs will put Aldrich in the starting lineup. While our offense will suffer, it will be interesting to see how the defense does with him as a starter.

I won't argue with your comment on Belly being the most overrated player on this board and I am a fan of his.

As for your observation that the Wolves bench has largely been terrible you would be even more shocked than I am that the Wolves Bench is #4 in net rating only behind the Raps, GS and the Spurs. How is that remotely possible? One reason is they have played 290 minutes which is the 3rd least in the league. Remember though they have played 2 less games than a majority of the league but still they have played fewer minutes which likely benefits them some. stats can look good but it doesn't always account for consistency which has been an issue from that group espcially early on and Thibs went to the starters or at least or of them. Anyway it's interesting stuff.

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monsterpile wrote:I won't argue with your comment on Belly being the most overrated player on this board and I am a fan of his.

As for your observation that the Wolves bench has largely been terrible you would be even more shocked than I am that the Wolves Bench is #4 in net rating only behind the Raps, GS and the Spurs. How is that remotely possible? One reason is they have played 290 minutes which is the 3rd least in the league. Remember though they have played 2 less games than a majority of the league but still they have played fewer minutes which likely benefits them some. stats can look good but it doesn't always account for consistency which has been an issue from that group espcially early on and Thibs went to the starters or at least or of them. Anyway it's interesting stuff.

Monster, this stat is indicative of how bad our bench has been. They can't even be trusted to be on the court.

Good stuff, Q. I like the recognition of the good work Aldrich has done this year. I feel very confident in our defense when he is on the court. I think the Thibs hire has been a disaster so far (doesn't mean he can't adapt and turn this around), but signing Cole at such a favorable contract is one good thing he has done.

Who knows if he could stabilize the defense if he was given a chance to start. I do know this...a team with as lousy a record as the Wolves needs to experiment to find the right combination. What's the downside? Try starting Cole for a few games to see what happens.

longstrangetrip wrote:Good stuff, Q. I like the recognition of the good work Aldrich has done this year. I feel very confident in our defense when he is on the court. I think the Thibs hire has been a disaster so far (doesn't mean he can't adapt and turn this around), but signing Cole at such a favorable contract is one good thing he has done.

Who knows if he could stabilize the defense if he was given a chance to start. I do know this...a team with as lousy a record as the Wolves needs to experiment to find the right combination. What's the downside? Try starting Cole for a few games to see what happens.

LST, I'm not so convinced he'll fare as well against opposing starting units. I do think he's done a good job in the role that was originally envisioned for him.

The other thing is I think Thibs wants to give these starters every opportunity to improve this season. He seems determined to make that happen. And if it doesn't happen, he'll know personnel is a problem and he'll look to address it in the offseason. Starting Cole Aldrich is likely not the answer.