Minnesota Sports Forum

As everyone on this Board knows, I probably would not have traded Ricky Rubio - at least not with the idea of signing Jeff Teague to a 3-year $19 million per year contract. I've also noted that, if we had kept Ricky, I would have offered Ricky and Wiggins to Cleveland for Kyrie Irving. I suspect the Cavs would have taken the deal given, although there's no way to know for sure. But let's assume I'm right and assume further than I was the Wolves PBO. While I think our record would be better, right now we'd be without both Butler and Kyrie. And Kyrie will end up having played 60 games this season while Butler will have played under 60 games. To date, he's played 56. So we'd be limping into the playoffs in significantly worse shape than we're in now.

Yet, one should be surprised. In 7 seasons, including this one, Kyrie has averaged 63 games per season. He has played in more than 72 games only once and has never played more than 75. He has played 60 or fewer games in 4 of his 7 seasons. As for Butler, he's averaged 65 games per season over his 7-year career, including this one, playing over 67 games in only 2 of those seasons. In the meantime, Wiggins and KAT continue to take the floor every single game year after year. No new insight here. We all know the importance of durability. But I think a lot of fans and even a number of NBA front offices undervalue it. I actually didn't realize until now that Kyrie was this injury-prone. So as I reflect, I doubt I would have offered the deal for Kyrie after looking at his historical lack of durability. I remember posting my reluctance to trade for Butler specifically because of his injury history. As Bud Grant used to say, "it's always the same guys on the training table."

Lip you asked me in a post a thread whether if I could go back and take Donovan Mitchell as the guard with our pick. I wanted to respond but I can't remember where that was. Your post/thread is sort of a retrospective so I'll reply here.

First of all I don't like looking back with such hindsight that basically nobody saw coming. 2nd there is so many different factors going into making that deal it's just too much. Plus it's unlikely Mitchell would look quite so dynamic here compared to his role in Utah where they are basically dying to have someone score and do things with the ball. Who would have guessed Mitchell would be averaging 20ppg and Malik Monk basically a non-factor. It's worth noting Dante Exum has been very productive and from what i have seen in a few games he has looked good. That's a nice development for him and for Utah.

Donovan Mitchell is a fun player to think about because he could have easily been a guy that went later than he did. Even with lack of efficiency he seems on pace to be a 2 way player that can create. The Wolves need to find a guy that can do that more especially as a 3 point shooter. I actually think there is a possible path for Tyus to get there IF his long range shooting progresses and while I'm not banking on it I'm just saying the guy turns 22 in a few weeks and he just keeps getting better and clearly has a very high level IQ guy. Can the Wolves find another guy? Idk. Maybe they can end up with a guy that hasn't figured it out with his first team and be a "2nd draft" type. Obviously hoping to draft a guy sounds good but someone that dynamic might be asking a lot for any franchise. I good really effective 6th man might not be. If it's the right guy that MIGHT be enough.

Sometimes we get too caught up in what we have now and what we may not be able to get in the future. 2 years ago the Rockets looked like they were in some trouble. The last 2 years they have spent some money but also built up that team and obviously have had some good fortune especially with Gordon staying pretty healthy and looking terrific and then CP3 picking that team to play with them. Now with GS injuries they have a real legit chance at a championship when it seemed like nobody had a real shot and the Rockets looked to have a chance before GS injuries. Anyway just something to think about so are the Celtics.

Lip, Good points. KAT and Wiggins have been incredibly durable. As much as I think Wiggins is a chronic underachiever, we'd be in big trouble if he missed a lot of time this season (along with Butler's injury) because our wing depth is just terrible. And without KAT, there is simply no way this team even cracks being a top 10 offense, much less top 5.

Now to your original post injuries were reasons I was hesitant about trading for Butler and Kyrie. I've admitted When I was against trading for Butler I had not realized just how damn good he was last season as an all around player. I also read well after that Butler deal that the likeliness of reoccurance of an ACL was much higher than I had known before so that made me realize I should have had more concerns about Lavine's health than I did. Also it's loking like your concern about IT was well founded. Hopefully this latest surgury will help him at lest have a few worthwhile years in the league. It's certainly not looking too great but maybe he can be a top level bench scorer...that's the kind of guy we could use...but I wouldn't go for him. :)

Hopefully the health Wiggins and Towns is not something to take for granted. You never know when something can happen to change a career. In my line of work I tell people we are one life even from needing care and/or assistance we would not expect. It does seem like They both just seem to stay healthy. I never would have thought Lavine would get injured the way he did because of his smooth athletism. That was one of the things that sold me on him watching film of this raw backup...on what turned out to be a pretty solidly talented UCLA squad.

monsterpile wrote:Now to your original post injuries were reasons I was hesitant about trading for Butler and Kyrie. I've admitted When I was against trading for Butler I had not realized just how damn good he was last season as an all around player. I also read well after that Butler deal that the likeliness of reoccurance of an ACL was much higher than I had known before so that made me realize I should have had more concerns about Lavine's health than I did. Also it's loking like your concern about IT was well founded. Hopefully this latest surgury will help him at lest have a few worthwhile years in the league. It's certainly not looking too great but maybe he can be a top level bench scorer...that's the kind of guy we could use...but I wouldn't go for him. :)

Hopefully the health Wiggins and Towns is not something to take for granted. You never know when something can happen to change a career. In my line of work I tell people we are one life even from needing care and/or assistance we would not expect. It does seem like They both just seem to stay healthy. I never would have thought Lavine would get injured the way he did because of his smooth athletism. That was one of the things that sold me on him watching film of this raw backup...on what turned out to be a pretty solidly talented UCLA squad.

I was also previously unaware of the risk of ACL reoccurrence, but I'd be less concerned about that in an otherwise durable player than I am about players who are consistently missing lots of games nearly every season for various reasons. Some guys are just more durable than others even though anyone can have a major injury like an ACL tear.

The IT hip problem was a no-brainer. I looked on the web at the time and learned that a labrum tear NEVER heals on its own without surgery. Knowing how important hips are in any sport, there should have been no doubt that he'd need surgery if he wanted to continue playing at anything close to a high level, especially as a PG who depends on quick bursts into the paint. The missed games by Butler and Irving raise yellow cautionary flags. IT's hip injury was a bright red flag.

Pssst... Kemba Walker's played in at least 89% of his games (73/82) every year he's been in the league except for one. And he's been incredibly durable the last three seasons.

Ya it's huge. For all the shit thibs gets about minutes. Wiggins, KAT, gorgui, Taj, tyus, Jamal all on pace not to miss a game. Teague will also play 70 this year.

Does any remember the numbers but it seems like last season there were something only like 5-10 guys that played all 82 games and the Wolves started the season with like half of them or something crazy like that including Crawford.

Ok I think I found the numbers. I think Teague on pace to only miss 11 games is kinda impressive in a way with 2 separate injuries especially that knee injury that looked like it was gonna be a whole lot worse.

2016-2017 season 5 starters played all 82 games.

Dieng
Teague
Towns
Wiggins
Gortat

This was a list I found of the guys (17 total) that played all 82 games last year.

Orlando: Elfrid Payton

Denver: Jamal Murray

Washington: Marcin Gortat

Phoenix: Marquese Chriss

New York: Justin Holiday

Minnesota: Karl-Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng

Atlanta: Ersan Ilyasova

Detroit: Tobias Harris

Indiana: Jeff Teague

Utah: Joe Ingles

LAL: Jordan Clarkson and Corey Brewer

LAC: Marreese Speights and Jamal Crawford

Sacramento: Buddy Hield

Add the minutes to the games played and i dont think there's anyone in the nba on the same tier as kat and wiggins as far as durability goes.

Did the wolves fall below .500 or something? This is the most positive thread I've read on here in what feels like months!