Minnesota Sports Forum

It's January 19, 2017. Amid an ever-changing NBA landscape, the Wolves have been in one form of rebuilding project or another since July 31, 2007.

22 - 60
24 - 58
15 - 67
17 - 65
26 - 40
31 - 51
40 - 42
16 - 66
29 - 53
14 - 28

The losing has paid off. Minnesota followed up the addition of #1 pick, Andrew Wiggins, with the arrival of #1 pick, Karl Anthony-Towns. Both players were near-consensus top picks in their respective drafts.

Meanwhile, in Philadelphia... after a run of 4 playoff appearances in 5 seasons and a winning record in 2012... the 76ers plummeted to 34 - 48 in 2013 and the team went on a rebuilding project panned by the rest of the league. The 76ers were ripped for 3+ seasons as the team went on a blatant tanking campaign where losses were actually wins. Where the team deliberately drafted people who were injured. Where they put out D-League caliber players consistently, just for the hope of a #1 pick.

19 - 63
18 - 64
10 - 72

It didn't pan out.

None of the the teams draft picks have even started 30 games for the team this season.
- J. Okafor (#3 in Towns draft) is a part-time player who has flirted with bust labels as his style of game is lost in today's NBA.
- Nerlens Noel (#6 in '13 draft) is having his worst NBA season. He's played only 14 games and hasn't started any of them, even as his rookie contract is up and lucrative offers potentially await.
- Ben Simmons (#1 in '16 draft) was finally the top guy the 76ers hoped for. Oops. He hasn't seen the court yet.
- Joel Embiid (#3 in '14 draft) finally is seeing the court after not playing for TWO seasons. He is not allowed to play back-to-back games and remains on a minutes restriction... he has yet to play 30 mpg in an NBA game.
- Even some of the team's most promising additions have been worthless. Jerryd Bayless arrived to give the team a bit of professionalism after the league essentially mandated that the 76ers stop trying to lose. He's played only 3 games after an injury.

_____________________________

The 14 - 28 Timberwolves find themselves behind the Philadelphia 76ers, who are 14 - 26. Or, ahead of them if we're counting ping pong balls.

This has been only the first installment of this look into Rebuilding Processes around the league. There will be more....

Good stuff Abe, but it just makes me ask all the more why we aren't seeing improvement.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Good stuff Abe, but it just makes me ask all the more why we aren't seeing improvement.

Don't know. But that's kind of the underlying point of this thread.

Other teams have figured it out. The Wolves have not... not after 4 or 5 GMs. And not after 6 coaches. We'll go through and see what's worked (or not worked) elsewhere. Maybe we'll learn something.

Or, slit our wrists.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:It's January 19, 2017. Amid an ever-changing NBA landscape, the Wolves have been in one form of rebuilding project or another since July 31, 2007.

22 - 60
24 - 58
15 - 67
17 - 65
26 - 40
31 - 51
40 - 42
16 - 66
29 - 53
14 - 28

The losing has paid off. Minnesota followed up the addition of #1 pick, Andrew Wiggins, with the arrival of #1 pick, Karl Anthony-Towns. Both players were near-consensus top picks in their respective drafts.

Meanwhile, in Philadelphia, the 76ers were ripped for 3+ seasons as the team went on a blatant tanking campaign where losses were actually wins. Where the team deliberately drafted people who were injured. Where they put out D-League caliber players consistently, just for the hope of a #1 pick.

It didn't pan out.

None of the the teams draft picks have even started 30 games for the team this season.
- J. Okafor (#3 in Towns draft) is a part-time player who has flirted with bust labels as his style of game is lost in today's NBA.
- Nerlens Noel (#6 in '13 draft) is having his worst NBA season. He's played only 14 games and hasn't started any of them, even as his rookie contract is up and lucrative offers potentially await.
- Ben Simmons (#1 in '16 draft) was finally the top guy the 76ers hoped for. Oops. He hasn't seen the court yet.
- Joel Embiid (#3 in '14 draft) finally is seeing the court after not playing for TWO seasons. He is not allowed to play back-to-back games and remains on a minutes restriction... he has yet to play 30 mpg in an NBA game.
- Even some of the team's most promising additions have been worthless. Jerryd Bayless arrived to give the team a bit of professionalism after the league essentially mandated that the 76ers stop trying to lose. He's played only 3 games after an injury.

_____________________________

The 14 - 28 Timberwolves find themselves behind the Philadelphia 76ers, who are 14 - 26. Or, ahead of them if we're counting ping pong balls.

This has been only the first installment of this look into Rebuilding Processes around the league. There will be more....

Interesting post. Here are some things I think are worth adding when it comes to the Sixers.

Noel has really come on lately so I don't think this is his worst season. Obviously it's a small sample but he is shooting 58% on long 2's which even if he came down him being able to hit a jumper would be a pretty big deal.

Also you left out that Illyasova guy and Gerald Henderson is having a career year shooting the ball.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Interesting post. Here are some things I think are worth adding when it comes to the Sixers.

Noel has really come on lately so I don't think this is his worst season. Obviously it's a small sample but he is shooting 58% on long 2's which even if he came down him being able to hit a jumper would be a pretty big deal.

Also you left out that Illyasova guy and Gerald Henderson is having a career year shooting the ball.

Noel has played only 14 games. And only 215 minutes. All season.

He hasn't played more than 24 minutes yet. And yet... despite minimal production from him. And none from Simmons. And limited production from Embiid and inconsistent at best production from Okafor and poor shooting from Saric...

The 76ers are ahead of the Wolves whose 3 best players (and foundation) have missed only 3 games and have played more than 4,500 combined minutes.

Yes. That's because of Ilyasova, McConnell, Covington, Gerald Henderson, Nik Stauskas, et al... but that's sort of the problem I'm pointing to here.

MIN has had some truly awful combinations of GM/coach/roster during this long playoff drought. Kahn and Rambis are both easily in the conversation of "worst at their position in NBA history". So many wasted picks on bad players. Several outright tanking years to try to recover from a previous failed regime.

Now that PHI is turning things around in just a few years, MIN is looking even worse.

To be fair, PHI does have some advantages over MIN this year. More useful vets. Same coach (who is well regarded) for several years in a row. That helps. The lack of playable vets here is Thibs' fault, but the coaching inconsistency is not.

Long term, things are not necessarily all roses for PHI. Noel is likely in a different uniform next fall unless (1) he has a massive change of heart and (2) PHI thinks he and Joel are a long-term paring. Noel is going to want a starting spot and major coin this summer. Okafor's stock keeps dropping. Simmons did not show signs of shooting ability or defense during college.

I believe this iteration of roster/front office/coach in MIN will finally break the drought and make the playoffs. Unfortunately it appears it is not going to be this year, which really sucks. To be honest, if winning was Thibs' top priority, I think the Wolves would still have a shot at the #8 spot. They would need to stop point Wiggins, send Dunn to the NBDL, have Tyus backup Ricky, play Rush more, and trade Bazz for one of the available vet wings like PJ Tucker, Arron Afflalo, etc. Would probably also help to move Towns to C, start Bjelly, and bring Dieng off the bench.

I think you brought it up in another thread but the Sixers play hard every night and they have guys who needed to prove they can play in the league.

McConnell was a undrafted player
.
Stauskas was looking like a journeyman in the league needed to play to stick around.

Illysova needed to play well to get a contact.

Henderson playing great

Rodriquez and Saric trying to break the mold of euro players.

Brown gets them to play hard every night and he has the faith of the players and front office and they built this thing they together, sprinkled in an all star level talent in embiid, it has worked.

A major difference between the two franchises. Brown has been their coach through it all. We've had 3 coaches the last 3 years. Continuity is extremely underrated in this league and having the same coach for 3 straight years is huge. 3 coaches in 3 years is usually a death sentence for team performance especially when your core is young and don't know how to really play NBA basketball yet. Philly doesn't have to start from almost scratch every year learning a different play style. They get to build on concepts from the prior year. That's a big deal and underrated on this board just because the patience is running thin.

khans2k5 wrote:A major difference between the two franchises. Brown has been their coach through it all. We've had 3 coaches the last 3 years. Continuity is extremely underrated in this league and having the same coach for 3 straight years is huge. 3 coaches in 3 years is usually a death sentence for team performance especially when your core is young and don't know how to really play NBA basketball yet. Philly doesn't have to start from almost scratch every year learning a different play style. They get to build on concepts from the prior year. That's a big deal and underrated on this board just because the patience is running thin.

The consistency with coaching goes both ways though. There are many examples of new coaches coming in and teams getting better immediately. I think it's overrated when you're dealing with a new set of players every season. I'm still a proponent of Players >> Coaching in the NBA.

And what is the demarcation point? Philly regressed to 72 losses last season in Year 3. Does continuity only kick in Year 4?

If so... maybe we owe Kurt Rambis an apology.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:A major difference between the two franchises. Brown has been their coach through it all. We've had 3 coaches the last 3 years. Continuity is extremely underrated in this league and having the same coach for 3 straight years is huge. 3 coaches in 3 years is usually a death sentence for team performance especially when your core is young and don't know how to really play NBA basketball yet. Philly doesn't have to start from almost scratch every year learning a different play style. They get to build on concepts from the prior year. That's a big deal and underrated on this board just because the patience is running thin.

The consistency with coaching goes both ways though. There are many examples of new coaches coming in and teams getting better immediately. I think it's overrated when you're dealing with a new set of players every season. I'm still a proponent of Players >> Coaching in the NBA.

And what is the demarcation point? Philly regressed to 72 losses last season in Year 3. Does continuity only kick in Year 4?

If so... maybe we owe Kurt Rambis an apology.

Couldn't agree more. The "X-factor" for Philly is Embiid. That guy is well on his way to being a 2-way monster. He is way more impactful defensively than any of our "big 3" and it's one of the primary reasons Philly is a top 10 defense. That's right, they vaulted from #26 to #10 since just last season in defensive rating. Joel Embiid is the main reason, not Brett Brown (although I do think he is a solid coach and deserves some credit).