Minnesota Sports Forum

I think all would agree that the most significant off-season change was the firing of the coach and the hiring of a coach that arguably had the best pedigree on the open market. Much of the preseason optimism here had to do with the expectation for great improvement from our talented young core combined with the expectation (or hope, in my case) that a winning coach like Thibs would also greatly improve our results. While I recognized how successful Thibs was in his 5 seasons coaching the Bulls (at least in the regular season, that is), I was concerned that he might not be the right guy for a young, impressionable team like the Wolves...I preferred a younger coach with a more upbeat, encouraging style. There were a few red flags with Thibs that couldn't be ignored, but that we decided to dismiss on this forum with the conclusion that "the Bulls brass didn't know what they were doing, and syupidly let a HOF coach get away". As for me, I was skeptical...I've learned sometimes the hard way that where there's smoke, there's often fire, and it's a form of denial to ignore that smoke.

The first two games haven't done anything to assuage my suspicions. I watched Thibs closely in our first preseason home game against Memphis, and while I loved the way we blew out Memphis (at least until a 4th quarter collapse that fortunately ran out of time), I commented in my game review how bizarre my son and I thought Thibs' sideline style was...he looked like a heart attack about to happen. Now, we have seen two disastrous collapses against not very good teams in the first two games of the season, and while 2 games is a ridiculously small sample size, it's all we have at the time to analyze (and that's what we do here)...there will be plenty of more games to add more positive comments to this thread (or more negative if my fears are valid). But the fact that the first two games were identical mirror images of themselves makes me wonder if there's a factor in these collapses that needs to be discussed. Here are my concerns with Thibs.

1) This is entirely personnel preference, but I have played for many coaches in my life with different styles and I always played my best for a coach with a calmer, more encouraging style...think Steve Kerr, in many ways the opposite in style from Thibs. As a fan (or a player) you can choose to take Thibs' disgust for a bad play as either a teaching tool, or something that is going to make you tentative and afraid to make a mistake. As I watched the few views of Thibs on the sidelines the TV crew has given us the first two games, I was surprised at the negative body language and facial expressions Thibs was giving his team. I know that I would react poorly to a coach acting that way, and I wondered how our young team responds...so far I would say not too well.

2) I've always thought that how a team plays coming out of the halftime break (when a coach gets to make adjustments based on what he has seen in the first half) is the truest test of a coach's effectiveness. In my opinion, the wolves lost both of their first games in the halftime locker room. Thibs was completely outcoached, and the two disastrous third quarter collapses speak for themselves.

3) I read the article in the paper about thibs last week, and I couldn't help but feel sorry for him. This is a guy with little or no life outside of watching video in his apartment or office over and over (with an occasional break once in awhile to go to an afternoon movie, by himself)...I couldn't help but feel an enormous sadness for the guy. He seems like an amiable guy in many ways, but what kind of life is that? And then being a Wolves fan and wanting us to win more, I wondered how our fun-loving young guys would relate to a guy with that life style, or lack thereof. I suspect they probably joke about him privately.

4) In two consecutive games (and really four, counting the final two preseason games), the Wolves have begun the game looking loose and joyous...moving the ball, making baskets and playing aggressive defense. And they have built huge 1st quarter leads in all 4 games. Are we seeing the positive impact of coaching in these 1st quarters, or just the enormous talent this young core has? It's a good talker and I sense it's a little of both, but I also sense that it maybe has more to do with our athleticism and talent. But then mistakes happen, Thibs over-shows his disapproval, the team starts to play tentative on both sides of the court, and the game unravels. Yes, I know it's only 2 games, but man...it sure seems that his sideline antics has a negative impact on this young team. We just look so tight after the first quarter, and especially at the end of games...and the early results speak for themselves and have me worried.

5) Thibs talked about narrowing the gap on three-pointers, and the Wolves have been relatively successful in the first quarter of their first 2 games. But in the final three quarters, we have given up as many wide open looks as we did last year...in fact, we are giving up an identical 25 three-pointers per game. We are taking a few more 3-pointers on offense, but we are still tied for third from the bottom in attempts. And nobody would label the Kings or a Griz team without Tony Allen defensive juggernauts. Why isn't Thibs getting his point across to his team and this very critical area?

As I said, it's way to early to form any conclusions about Thibs. But since the results of the first two games reveal some of the concerns I (and a couple others here) had when he was hired about the fit of Thibs and a young roster, I thought it was appropriate to start this thread. To be successful this season, we need Thibs to get the most out of our talent...and so far I think he's had the opposite effect.

Hmm... This wreaks of the "Wiggins is a Bust" thread.

Just sayin'... ;-)


You did say it is a "ridiculously small sample size". Heck, the sample size does not even include any home games! But if this trend continues, you would be correct in pointing out these first two games began the pattern. Many people say you need to give a team 20 games to "figure themselves out". I have suggested we will have a better idea where this team is at as we finish out the first 10 games against a softer schedule.

60WinTim wrote:Hmm... This wreaks of the "Wiggins is a Bust" thread.

Just sayin'... ;-)


You did say it is a "ridiculously small sample size". Heck, the sample size does not even include any home games! But if this trend continues, you would be correct in pointing out these first two games began the pattern. Many people say you need to give a team 20 games to "figure themselves out". I have suggested we will have a better idea where this team is at as we finish out the first 10 games against a softer schedule.

Wait, there's a "Wiggins is a Bust" thread...first I've heard of it ;-) .

Actually while I was unhappy with the collapses this week and wondering about the coach's connection to them, my observations about Thibs came mostly from the one time I have seen him live...the first home preseason game. I spent a good portion of the game watching him. Lip is right about his time out style...he's much more engaged with his coaches and team than Sam and Flip were...and that's a good thing. But his sideline antics border on bizarre. Most of his vitriol is directed toward the refs (he complains even about obviously correct calls that go against him...it gets tiring), but I was quite surprised at the negativity of his demeanor. My son turned to me at one point and said "How'd you like to play for THAT?". I'd like to see him dial it back a bit, and maybe a little encouraging once in a while...I think it could go a long ways toward avoiding more of these disasters. I can't take many more of them.

I guess your 20-game theory makes some sense. I was hopeful that the pre-pre-season time he spent on the court with the team was going to soften the transition, and the way they played in the final two exhibition games was very promising. But I guess we have to be more patient and hope his coaching sinks in eventually. But meanwhile, I wish he could be a more positive influence in the sidelines.

Greg Popovich comes to mind as a guy who has no issue showing his disappointment with shit play.

Also, when bringing up a coach who has a calm, positive approach who has found success you have to also look at where the teams players were when they inherited it. Steve Kerr had a super rounded team that had already seen the playoffs.

Our team is young, unproven, and trying to shake 12 years of playoff drought. This is the time to be stern in order to teach correct habits. Thibs can't just trust these guys to execute yet. What I'm seeing is him allowing them to play through some spots in these early games, and scolding/teaching them while mistakes happen and I'm sure after the game is done. When our core is 24+ and has made the playoffs then I would expect him to lay off some. The bulls and those players seemed to benefit from this style.

Future, I agree that different coaching styles may be effective with different rosters, but I think that's the issue...I worry that Thibs' highly critical style of coaching may not be a good match for guys in their young 20s, and may be more suitable to a veteran team that can let criticism roll off their backs easier. I especially look at guys like Wig and Zach, and possible even Belly. All three seem to have a personality type that would thrive on positive rather than negative reinforcement, and may not perform their best if they see their coach constantly rolling his eyes or grimacing at bad plays. I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Hopefully not all young men in their early twenties are whiney Millenial bitches that can't take instruction and criticism . These guys are making a lot of money , shut up and do your job.

Most of you know Thibs wasn't my first choice. The primary reason was the concern that he would grate on players over the long haul. I figured he would make a big splash this year, but possibly struggle to keep the momentum going past year 1. At this point, I'm actually higher on Thibs than I was at the time of the hire. I didn't realize how much of a study he is at his craft. I can't imagine anyone being more prepared than he is. Hopefully that translates to us being the most prepared team. Of course that remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen how this plays out over several years.

Which brings me to my main point. LST, your my guy and I respect everything you put down in this forum. But we just can't take these two games and formulate any hypothesis about how effective Thibs is going to be with this team. I think after 30 games you might be able to draw some preliminary conclusions about this year. But certainly not now. And I realize this is what we do here, but even for us this is too early. We still have an enormous amount to be excited about. What we need is a win. And then we can build on that and see what we have.

The sample size is small so I am not ready to make any indictments, but allowing huge comebacks in three games (includes the preseason game where we had 38 pt lead dissipated to 6) is at least cause for concern. If we don't win 40 games with this squad and the work load Thibs is putting on them, then I think its fair to reassess if Thibs is the right guy to coach this team.

PorkChop wrote:Hopefully not all young men in their early twenties are whiney Millenial bitches that can't take instruction and criticism . These guys are making a lot of money , shut up and do your job.

That would be great in a perfect world and sure would make coaching a lot easier. But everyone is different, and unfortunately our roster is composed of millennials...and we know what a different breed they are. I've been a manager in business and a coach in sports (still am a coach), and one thing I learned early is that success was not only dependent upon strategy and x's and o'. More important sometimes is recognizing that the people you're leading have different personalities, and using that knowledge to tailor a leadership style designed to optimize their talents. That's where I fear Thibs may fall short, as he seems to only have one gear and one style when it comes to coaching. A style that leads to a guy like KAT (who seems to me to have a very thick skin) excelling may be very different than the optimal style to motivate a guy like Wig (who appears to be considerably more sensitive).

These are just observations based on 2 games (plus pre-season), so I may be way off base...I hope so. But one thing I think we can all agree on is that something happened to our beloved team to cause them to completely collapse against two average at best teams, and I'm just throwing out coaching style as a possible cause. I'm sure others have other theories. All I know is that if we keep blowing leads like this, we're destined for the lottery for yet another year. And I think this team is just too talented to yet again miss the playoffs absent other variables.

If our young pups cannot stand the heat of their coach frowning upon them then they'll never be able to take the pressure of a deep playoff run, much less a championship series. It is way way way too early to be worrying about such things IMO, and again, if the concern is legitimate then the problem isn't our coach but the mental fortitude of our team.