Minnesota Sports Forum

http://www.minnpost.com/sports/2015/03/tease-zach-lavine

I was not on favor with Flip drafting Zach, and I don't hide from the stats he has put up this year...they're horrible. But that said, I think Robson's write up is too harsh when it comes to Zach. I follow Britt on twitter sometimes if I'm watching a game on TV. He is remarkably astute in his observations, but he is often way too tough on our rookie...as he somewhat acknowledges in this article. I have some of the same Grumpy Old Men feelings when it comes to Zach...I too wish that he had the same passion for playing defense that he has for dunk contests. But I also think Zach's promise far exceeds what can be predicted by this year's performance, and you only have to watch him to see the potential there. I didn't think Zach was at all ready for NBA minutes this year and would have rather seen him getting used to playing against grown men in the D League, but overall I approve of the way Flip has used him this year. I think Flip recognized early that Zach had a thick skin, and this has allowed Flip to start Zach when Ricky went down and to ride him hard when he saw things he didn't like (which was often). Zach's body language has been interesting when Flip has singled him out on the court. Sometimes he laughs, sometimes he looks kind of ticked, but never did I see it effect his confidence. Good coaching job by Flip, I think.

In the midst of a forgettable season, I've come around on Zach. He's so much better than the teenager I watched last year at UCLA, and if he continues to make the same kind of yearly leap, he has potential to be a star. I'm willing to admit that I was wrong about Flip picking Zach.

The older generation invented the dunk contest and modern NBA marketing and now we are upset that the kids focus on the flashy elements of the game. The generational thing is as funny as it was when I was growing up and my parents/grandparents were saying the same things. The bottom line is hard work always pays off in the end when coupled with talent. I am encouraged that there have yet to be any negative reports about Zach's attitude which I somehow assumed would exist based on the way he talks and carries himself publicly. I hope he keeps up the positive work ethic, which is probably why Flip likes him.

I follow Robson on twitter as well, and my feeling on him is quite different. I don't think he's the sharpest bulb in the tanning bed.

I knew someone would post this today. And look, I can't argue with some of the stats he has put up this year. But remember the forest through the trees post I made a couple weeks back? This is kind of what i'm talking about. Sit back and enjoy the ride. We don't need to be a polished player this year or next year. But I firmly believe he will get there.

I like reading Robson's blogs. His strength is that he's really well spoken and a very clear communicator. As an analyst he's good but not extraordinary.

Zach's defensive numbers cast him in a bad light defensively. No denying that. But Robson delves into those defensive stats and criticizes Zach while at the same time acknowledging that Flip has put Zach in an extremely difficult position by putting this 19 year old at PG - the NBA's most difficult position, a position he never played in his one year of college, against what are generally the NBA's best players. And then he compares him to Wiggins - a phenomenal talent who has been allowed to play his natural (and much easier) position. Note also that Wiggins has had far more minutes than Zach on the court to improve his game with a much longer leash to fail. And let's not forget that Andrew's game has improved dramatically during the season, likely a result of all the playing time and the long leash Flip has given him.

The frosting on the cake was Robson pointing to Zach's defense on Chris Paul. Is he kidding??!! No PG in the League can stop Paul's dribble penetration or pull-jumper. Hell, Chris routinely slices and dices his way through double and triple teams. I was at that game and I'm here to tell you that Rubio, an excellent defender, guarded Paul most of the game and failed repeatedly to contain him. Zach actually did an excellent job defensively against Memphis.

Robson said he didn't like the Zach pick when it was made and his initial opinion still seems to unduly color his perception. It's something we all do. As an example I have to resist the temptation to find or exaggerate faults in Payne because I didn't like the trade that brought him here.

As for Zach's defense, let's note that Zach's defensive potential was one of the reasons Flip drafted him. Flip told me that opposing players in college shot 25% from the field while being guarded by him. Flip said that was a key reason for drafting him. Watching Zach it is clear that he has great lateral quickness and works hard defensively. I've seen him effectively shut down dribble penetration a number of times more recently. Admittedly, he has mental lapses, which isn't surprising for a 19 year old rookie.

Zach is a work in progress with limited minutes who has been forced to play out of position. He could end up a bust. But he could be a star. He was never a sure thing, which is why he went 13th in the draft and not 1st like Wiggins. Would we rather have Harris? Look at his stats in Denver.

Wiggins looks like he WILL be a star. Zach looks like he COULD be a star. Or perhaps he'll be a borderline allstar or just a good rotation player. Time will tell. Zach just hasn't had the time or the suffuciently favorable circumstances to give us a clear window into his future. Robson's article is an interesting read but not very illuminating.

Lip - "He could end up a bust. But he could be a star."

Most likely, he will be something in between.

I'm not sure what everyone's expectations were for LaVine coming into the season but I've been more impressed with him than I've been disappointed. I watched a couple UCLA games last year and he just didn't look for good, he missed a lot of shots, made mistakes, and you could see why he was down in the rotation. However, you could see the athleticism and some skills that could allow him to great. Because of this I was torn when we drafted him as I could not decide if I liked the pick. Watching games this year I like the pick more and more, some of LaVine's skills are elite even for NBA standards and that's what we need. Teams only go as far as the star players take them and LaVine was really the only guy outside the top several picks with that potential. I hate drafting busts but we're not going to attract star free agents so taking risks in the draft is really the only way to get those guys.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I follow Robson on twitter as well, and my feeling on him is quite different. I don't think he's the sharpest bulb in the tanning bed.

I knew someone would post this today. And look, I can't argue with some of the stats he has put up this year. But remember the forest through the trees post I made a couple weeks back? This is kind of what i'm talking about. Sit back and enjoy the ride. We don't need to be a polished player this year or next year. But I firmly believe he will get there.

I agree Cool, I think the kid has that it factor. It'll be fun to watch him grow as a player.

I agree nearly 100% with what Robson wrote.

Obviously, I dig Robson (since Cool doesn't like him and for some reason we disagree on A LOT of basketball stuff it seems).

LaVine LOOKS great. He has athleticism. He's so smooth. And he jumps so high. It sure LOOKS like he's going to be a star in this league. It's so effortless.

The odds are not in his favor. And that's why I love this game. There are so many nuances and subtleties that go into basketball. It's not only about being tall. Or fast. Or looking good. You have to be smart. You have to work as a team. You have to keep improving.

We all think we know about basketball. And we all do, to varying degrees. But the nature of watching it on tv or even in person, it's easy to be caught up in the sudden bursts of athleticism or the beautiful grace of a pull-up jumpshot that we miss the lazy rotations on defense. The tunnel vision with the ball. Or, the lack of awareness on both ends from a player.

It's not a perfect comparison... but the Gerald Green one has been there all season in neon lights. Remember, Green produced at times early in his career. But he didn't get consistent run. And there's a reason he's been with 7 teams (with more to come). The talent is undeniable. So coaches want him... but the less-obvious warts appear, he ends up frustrating the coach and he moves to the next destination.

I think LaVine will be the next major polarizing person for the board next season. There's a bit of McCants, Beasley, Green, etc. to him... and that makes for great debates here. I hope that LaVine channels the good things he does better than those guys and learns a lot more about being a professional basketball player ---- so he can become a better player.

Truth be told... we won't know for sure for a few years.

Abe -- I remember Gerald Green's tenure here pretty well. I was a season ticket holder by then and saw him a lot in person. So I'll say that the only similarity between LaVine and Green is their tremendous vertical. I have vivid memories of Green's play on the court back then. The words that come to mind in describing his play back then are "utterly clueless." I recall my friend and I laughing as, after a time out, Green sort of wandered onto the court with glazed eyes and his jersey untucked moving from spot to spot before the whistle blew as his teammates and coaches kept directing him on where he was supposed to be. As my friend said back then, that moment captured the essence of Gerald Green at the time.

Green looked like a scared, confused lost lamb every game he played here in spite of occasional high-flying dunks. And that was playing the wing position, not PG. He was also a poor ball-handler who had and still has no court vision. Zach looks nothing like Green on the court other than his similarly prolific vertical. Zach plays with purpose and confidence. He has a nice feel for the game and a nice shooting stoke. And in spite of his struggles at PG, he's actually a pretty good passer who sees the floor fairly well. He's also a very good ball-handler who, in addition to his enormous vertical, has tremendous speed with the ball, something Green has never had.

The uncertainty surrounding how good Zach will ultimately be is well-founded. But the Green comparisons and suggestions that he's just some athletic freak without a real feel for the game or decent basketball IQ are way off the mark. You can see that Zach has basketball in his genes; he's a natural. He's just not a natural PG. But very few are. And he's only 19. We'll never know how Zach would be performing now if he had been given the same opportunity as Wiggins to play 35+ minutes a game at his natural position (SG) as a starter along side the Wolves best players. At some point, Flip has to give Zach that opportunity. If not, then Flip will have squandered our 1st round pick last year and some other team will give Zach that opportunity and likely reap the benefits.