Minnesota Sports Forum

The Devil:
14.2 ppg / 5.1 reb / 2.6 ast / 1.7 stl / 46.0% fg

Franchise Player:
15.1 ppg / 5.9 reb / 2.2 ast / 1.3 stl / 46.2% fg

The Devil gets traded from one horrible team to the next. He gets ripped daily on a local area message board for everything from lousy rebounding to effort to three point shooting to not curing cancer.

The Franchise Player is largely applauded for roughly the same stats... nationally. And, in fact, the GM of his team claims he's better than the PG who made an All NBA team last season. This guy also is the one who after being part of a team that scored 24 points in a half, shooting 28%... and losing the game by about 30... ripped the fans in attendance for not cheering enough.

Interesting how stats can mess with our perspectives/expectations, huh?


[note: thad young is the devil. markieff morris is the franchise player.]

To be fair, the devil probably has the power to cure cancer since he probably created it.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Devil:
14.2 ppg / 5.1 reb / 2.6 ast / 1.7 stl / 46.0% fg

Franchise Player:
15.1 ppg / 5.9 reb / 2.2 ast / 1.3 stl / 46.2% fg

The Devil gets traded from one horrible team to the next. He gets ripped daily on a local area message board for everything from lousy rebounding to effort to three point shooting to not curing cancer.

The Franchise Player is largely applauded for roughly the same stats... nationally. And, in fact, the GM of his team claims he's better than the PG who made an All NBA team last season. This guy also is the one who after being part of a team that scored 24 points in a half, shooting 28%... and losing the game by about 30... ripped the fans in attendance for not cheering enough.

Interesting how stats can mess with our perspectives/expectations, huh?


[note: thad young is the devil. markieff morris is the franchise player.]

I'd like to ask how their defensive stats compare? I don't know, and am not willing to look them up. But if you are, im wondering if they are similar or not? I can't see markieff being worse than thad in defensive categories as opponent fg% etc. But I could be wrong. Also, Thad is 4 years older or so isn't he?

TheFuture wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Devil:
14.2 ppg / 5.1 reb / 2.6 ast / 1.7 stl / 46.0% fg

Franchise Player:
15.1 ppg / 5.9 reb / 2.2 ast / 1.3 stl / 46.2% fg

The Devil gets traded from one horrible team to the next. He gets ripped daily on a local area message board for everything from lousy rebounding to effort to three point shooting to not curing cancer.

The Franchise Player is largely applauded for roughly the same stats... nationally. And, in fact, the GM of his team claims he's better than the PG who made an All NBA team last season. This guy also is the one who after being part of a team that scored 24 points in a half, shooting 28%... and losing the game by about 30... ripped the fans in attendance for not cheering enough.

Interesting how stats can mess with our perspectives/expectations, huh?


[note: thad young is the devil. markieff morris is the franchise player.]

I'd like to ask how their defensive stats compare? I don't know, and am not willing to look them up. But if you are, im wondering if they are similar or not? I can't see markieff being worse than thad in defensive categories as opponent fg% etc. But I could be wrong. Also, Thad is 4 years older or so isn't he?

Yes. I can't imagine Morris being as bad as Young defensively. I was quite surprised, however, when I realized their basic offensive stats were so close.

I assume Morris receives such praise because people assume he'll continue to improve...

Good stuff, Abe. Their offensive stats are remarkably close (although Morris's are slightly better across the board), and I would argue that Morris isn't that much better as a defender either. Personally I've never been a big Morris supporter (his performance against the Wolves last game notwithstanding) and frankly see both him and Young as solid bench guys rather than NBA starters.

TheFuture wrote:I'd like to ask how their defensive stats compare? I don't know, and am not willing to look them up. But if you are, im wondering if they are similar or not? I can't see markieff being worse than thad in defensive categories as opponent fg% etc. But I could be wrong. Also, Thad is 4 years older or so isn't he?

Morris is actually just one year younger than Thad. He came to league at age of 22 when Thad was just 19 when he arrived. I don't think that Markieff would be any better in defense than Thad. His strengths have been always in offensive end.

I guess I hadn't seen anyone touting Morris as a franchise player. He was another "high effort" guy on a good contract, fitting in on an up and coming team. He fits the tweener mold with Thad, but is making less money. I think his new deal is paying him around 8 mil next year. He is not what I would envision for my starting PF unless he is making on the low end for a starter.

Heh, love the thread title.

Morris is the superior defender by a number of stats. If you look at defensive RPM, a stat that tries to isolate defensive impact of individual players, Markieff is one of the better PF defenders in the league. It also shows up in the more team-oriented On-Off stats. Teams score 104 points per 100 possessions when he's on the floor and 116 when he's off of it. That's the biggest difference on the team, so he's not just riding the coat tails of his fellow starters.

Markieff might play like a 'tweener in terms of his inside/outside repertoire, but physically he's built like a conventional PF - not huge, but not small either. He's two inches taller and about 25 lbs heavier than Thad.

(by the way, using these same stats, Thad's defense isn't nearly as bad as people here made it out to be. He's not as good as Morris, but it's more like his defense is OK-ish and Markieff's is excellent).

IMO - The reason many turned on Thad is because he was coming off a couple good statistical years in PHI and then had his production dropped off when he came here:
2012/13 - Thad averaged 14.8 points, 7.5 rebounds and had a PER of 18.2
2013/14 - Thad averaged 17.9 points, 6.0 rebounds and had a PER of 16.6
Then he comes here and 14.3 points, 5.1 rebounds and had a PER of 14.9

I think when they signed him, they thought they were getting a guy who'd at least duplicate what he did the prior year or at best, improve upon that and be someone to consider re-signing (at only 26 years old). Maybe it's just a down year. Maybe it's a "fit" issue. But he didn't produce like many hoped. One interesting stat is double doubles. Last year Love led the NBA with 65 as a PF. This year, his replacement (Thad) had 2. Anthony Bennett also has 2 as a reserve. Adriane Payne now has 1. I realize double/doubles are not a fail proof way to measure players. But it's still interesting and certainly highlights the poor rebounding problem. And I'm assuming that's why Flip wanted more size at that position going forward.

While it's true that Thad had a down year relative to past seasons, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. When you are stuck with two 19-year old rookies in the starting lineup along with a Center that is more physically overmatched than even Thad is at PF, it's a pretty difficult situation to overcome.

Sure enough, once the original starters began trickling back into the lineup, Thad started to play more like his former self.

What's done is done at this point, but he was not nearly as bad as some folks here made him out to be.