Minnesota Sports Forum

I went to the home game against Portland, and went home quite enthusiastic about the prospects for this team. But the last three games have really changed my thoughts. Not that I expected to win any of the games...it's more about how we lost. While some guys played hard, I found the overall mood of the team incredibly flat...both on the court and on the bench. And that's not what we have seen all year. And it causes me to wonder if Flip has lost this team.

More striking was an incident that happened at the start of the second half of the Suns game. Adreian Payne was coming off of a 16-15 game against the Clippers, but had not played well in the first half. Something happened in the first minute of the second half, and Flip angrily yanked Payne out of the game. I didn't see it, but one of the in-game tweeters that I follow said Payne clearly rolled his eyes at something Flip said, and Flip didn't like it. If Adreian did that, I applaud Flip for yanking him. What surprises me as that an Izzo-described coach's dream, who should be grateful to a coach that is giving him his first real chance in the NBA, thinks it is acceptable to show his coach up on the court. Tells me a lot. That tells me that the players may be talking about Flip behind his back, and Payne let it show in a stupid way on the court.

I may be stretching here, but I think Flip has lost this team. I think they believe there is more talent on the roster than is reflected in wins and losses, and they're frustrated. It showed in their lack of energy on the court the last three games (with some notable exceptions, like new guy Hamilton), and it showed in Payne's ill-advised move. As much as we rip Glen Taylor, he is a self-made billionaire who didn't get to where he is by not knowing people...he recognizes when a manager has lost the room. If he's paying attention, I'm convinced he will do the right thing and tell Flip he is now just the PBO, and to find a new coach.

I read about the Payne incident in today's Strib. These things can be overblown sometimes - but who knows. The problem (as I see it), it that we are not really trying to win games at this point. And with all the losing, I think it's tough for guys to not tune things out. It would be great if everyone had a "can do" attitude - but how realistic is that when you are losing 8 out of every 10 games? Guys just start to check out at this point. Is that an excuse for Payne? No. He should be grateful and loyal to a coach giving him a shot. But losing games starts to wear people down. Heck, I'm even worn down as a fan. I went from not missing a minute of any game to pretty much checking the box scores. I guess I'm just mailing it in at this point too!

Probably, but in a poll that asked, "will Taylor act to fix this?" I'd answer no

"hey Fred, flip here. Still interested in coaching here?"

"nah, I'm good, man."

The Payne thing depends on what Flip said to him. Flip is running an ancient offense and he clearly can't coach defense so there are a few things he could say that Payne could acceptably throw an "ok" coach eye roll in there in my mind. This is the same coach who was telling guys like AB at the begging of the year to pass up open 3's and only take long 2's. That's not player development. Flip isn't a good enough coach to me to think that a player shouldn't disagree with what he's preaching at times. It may still be immature on Payne's part, but I don't think Payne should be kissing the ring either when this team is this bad under Flip's system. It depends on what Flip said. Flip hasn't earned the right to be unquestioned on this team because of how bad a job he's done with this team this year.

"Flip hasn't earned the right to be unquestioned on this team because of how bad a job he's done with this team this year."

Similarly, Payne hasn't earned the right, nor the privilege, to roll his eyes or even question Flip for that matter. Who does he think he is? He's a nobody right now and Flip's the guy that went all out to give him a shot in this league by trading a 1st for him. You'd think he'd show more respect than that.

Camden0916 wrote:"Flip hasn't earned the right to be unquestioned on this team because of how bad a job he's done with this team this year."

Similarly, Payne hasn't earned the right, nor the privilege, to roll his eyes or even question Flip for that matter. Who does he think he is? He's a nobody right now and Flip's the guy that went all out to give him a shot in this league by trading a 1st for him. You'd think he'd show more respect than that.

Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Payne doesn't have the right to his opinion because Flip traded a first for him. If Flip says bend over he should say to what degree sir? What has Flip done in his career to earn unquestionabilty? If KG rolled his eyes would you be saying the same thing or is it just Payne's experience level that means he doesn't get an opinion and has to bend over for his coach? These are grown men. This isn't the military. There's room on both sides for this behavior just from the fact that AP is a human being. He got benched for it which is Flip's right, but it is unreal to believe that Payne doesn't have any rights when his coach tells him something because of his status in the league and what it cost to get him.

Camden0916 wrote:"Flip hasn't earned the right to be unquestioned on this team because of how bad a job he's done with this team this year."

Similarly, Payne hasn't earned the right, nor the privilege, to roll his eyes or even question Flip for that matter. Who does he think he is? He's a nobody right now and Flip's the guy that went all out to give him a shot in this league by trading a 1st for him. You'd think he'd show more respect than that.

Flip made the right call for benching him but let's not take out the human element here. I bet all of us have rolled our eyes when being criticized, not saying it is right but it is a human reaction

One thing that others have noted throughout the year is Flip's different treatment of our young guys versus the vets. One way to lose a team is to treat players very differently based on whether they are a vet or a young player. I could easily see that rift growing if it is the same BS all year long where young players get punished and vets don't for doing similar bad things on the court.

Rookie player visibly showed up his coach during a game and you're questioning the coach in this case? You gotta be kidding me. At least Flip's well-respected in this league because he's been a winner. Payne is nothing. Know your place. It's really that simple. Think whatever you want to in your head. Payne can THINK "fuck my coach he's an idiot" if he wants to, but don't show him up with your actions. Now both sides looks poor. Flip looks like he's lost respect and Payne looks like a foolish young player. No good comes from stuff like that.

It'd be wrong if Wiggins or LaVine did it in my mind. It's even worse considering how Payne actually got here. Respect is sooo key for young teams.