Minnesota Sports Forum

Here's a list of what I would consider Flip's mistakes to date in his capacity as our President of Basketball Operations:

1. Re-signing Pek to a 5-year $12 per year contract. Pek's ankle/foot problems were already known at the time as were his limitations on the defensive end. Moreover there didn't appear to be a lot of teams lining up to bid for his services. I wasn't against re-signing him at the time, but I didn't like the contract Flip gave him given his physical issues. Now with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say those of us who didn't like the deal at the time were right.

2. Signing Corey Brewer to a $5 million per year deal rather than signing DeMarr Carrol who I wanted
to sign at the time and who ended up signing that summer with Atlanta for $2.5 million per year.

3. Drafting Dieng instead of Gobert at #24 in 2013. I actually liked the Dieng pick at the time and I still don't think he was a bad pick. But I also thought Gobert was a higher upside pick and the early returns suggest I'm hindsight that Gobert would have been the better pick.

4. Drafting Shabazz instead of the Greek Freak in 2013. I didn't care for the Shabazz pick at the time, but like most, I've come around on him and consider him to have been a very good pick. However, the Greek Freak was definitely the much higher upside pick at the time and the evidence to date suggests he would have been a much better pick apthan Shabazz.

5. Using the 1st round pick from the Love deal to acquire Thad Young. The Love deal was the opening chapter in a rebuild process. As you begin a rebuild process, first round picks are precious and shouldn't be surrendered for role players. I'd like to have that pick this summer as a possible trade chip.

Do these 5 mistakes mean Flip has been a failure thus far in his front office tenure with the Wolves? No. While I consider these five moves mistakes, they are not terrible boneheaded franchise killing mistakes like those we saw from Kahn - taking Flynn over Curry and essentially missing on everyone of his at least 7 first round picks except Rubio, signing Darko to a lucrative long-term deal, etc.. Moreover, Flip has made a number of what I would consider very good moves, including the following:

1. Dealing Love for a Wiggins. Once it was clear Love wanted out, Flip had to deal him. To his credit, Flip resisted the pressure and temptation and held out for the deal that landed what looks like a future star.

2. Drafting Zach LaVine. I loved the pick at the time and I still love it. Zach has struggled a bit so far this season, but he's shown enough splashes of brilliance to confirm my view that Zach will develop into an all-star caliber player.

3. Drafting Shabazz over everyone but the Greek Freak and maybe Hardaway Jr. As we all know, Shabazz has really elevated his gsme this season. He looks like he'll develop into a very good rotation player at a minimum and might develop into something more.

4. Drafting Dieng over everyone other than Gobert. Although Dieng has struggled lately, I still like his play overall this season and see him as a valuable rotation player into the future.

5. Trading Thad for Garnett. I wasn't sure initially, but I quickly saw the method to Flip's madness on this one. Garnett's impact on the young guys will be invaluable and the excitement he's added to the team and community is just what the doctor ordered.

Overall, I'm pleased with Flip's tenure so far. Now let's see what he does this summer.

Great stuff as usual. My one comment would be the stuff about Gobert/Greek Freak vs. Dieng/Bazz. Call me crazy but I'll take the Wolves combo. I think Shabazz is one off-season with Coach Penberthy away from becoming a real 3-point threat and quite possibly the starting SF of the future for this team. Greek Freaks ceiling is almost impossible to measure because he's still growing (like LITERALLY still growing as a human being), but I just see Shabazz's shooting and grit on the boards as a much better fit long term with Rubio and Wiggins (the two franchise players on the roster).

And Dieng, I think he's a must better pick-n-pop guy to pair with Rubio than Gobert is. Gobert is a shot blocking monster, but if you watched him with France or any time this season with Utah, he has literally developed zero midrange game. He is basically Deandre Jordan 2.0 (which again is NOT bad, but I'll take Dieng's better combination of skill on both ends)..

Just my two cents. Again, great write up!

Great write up!

2 things I would consider adding would be:

1. Budinger signing - This signing was questionable. Before injury Bud was a borderline MLE type free agent. After losing a year to injury he certainly was a bigger risk at the salary we planned to pay him. I think Flip got caught up in the trying to make Adelman happy with this signing.

2. Keeping Adelman as a coach for 2013-14 season - We used to hear how Flip would be a GM that would be coach friendly. That was a good thought up front, but as the season progressed we saw that Adelman didn't have his full effort in this and Flip tried to show a good face, but he was not happy with what was happening. If he would have taken over as coach it certainly woudl have changed how things are today, but it made that first year just a throw away period as PoB.

I think looking at your list. #1 seems like it comes from the experience Flip had to coach through with Cassell/Spree not having contracts. If you go back and listen to KG's interview with John Thompson interview with KG you will hear KG talk about business being completed in the off-season. I am sure this is something KG and Flip talked about that year. I am sure that experience has had an impact on how Flip handled trying to put together a playoff team and keep Love here. The biggest problem I had with the deal was we were bidding against ourselves. All teams with money had spent it and Pek's agent had no leverage. I think Flip could have bargained for better terms. Just think how much better shape this team would be in if he would have given him a 3yr/36M contract with player option after 1st year and team option for year 3. If a player is healthy and driven they certainly would take that and com back to the market in a year knowing they can opt out for a longer deal or more money per year while having the security 24M guaranteed.

Yeah, I agree that this was a good analysis of Flip's tenure, and that there has been both good and bad in his decisions. Here are the two areas where I take the other side:

1) Signing Pek. We will never know that kind of competition Flip had in signing Pek, so it's difficult for me to conclude that Flip overpaid. Regardless, I think Flip was in a tough spot here. Pek was an immensely popular player coming off a good season, and Flip would have been ripped unmercifully if he had let him go. I agree that Pek's ability to stay healthy makes the deal look terrible in hindsight, but I give Flip a pass because I think he had to do this deal to keep the fan base happy.

2) While I certainly agree with Antetokounpo's upside, I take Muhammad over him. Both at the time, and using hindsight. Here is a comparison of the two players:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=antetgi01&y2=2015&p2=muhamsh01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Freak is a better rebounder and assist guy than Shabazz, but the offensive difference is just too extreme to conclude he would have been a better pick. Bazz scores 50% more on a per 36 basis, and also protects the ball much better (Giannis has a tendency to play out of control). I love Shabazz's burning desire to win and to get better...characteristics I don't see yet in Giannis. The Freak is in intriguing player, but I still like Flip's pick. Not to mention what a brilliant move he made trading the pick he had (nobody projected around that pick has panned out) to get two picks he turned into Bazz and G.

Pek's deal was bad due to a few reasons. Pek was a RFA, and there were no other offers. Pek wasn't even visiting, much less working out for other teams. He already had a significant injury history and that went back to his days playing overseas. No other team could offer him more than 4 years, so why did we give him 5? Not only did we bump it to 5, but we over bid ourselves going up to 12 mil/yr. What would have been the harm in letting him play out his RFA year under the QO salary, and then making a decisions the following year when we knew the status of Love and Adelman?

Buddinger is another head scratcher. Never worked out for another team, didn't play well enough to demand an MLE level salary when healthy, and was coming off an injury that he was slow to return from. Then to compound the problem, Flip throws him an option year as well.

I wasn't a fan of the Brewer deal at the time, but I don't think that hurt us. Cory would have been a solid role player off the bench in limited minutes, but once again, why the option year?

I would take Golbert over G in a heart beat. G has a better offensive game, but defensively he is isn't on the same level, and G is significantly older. I would take Giannis over Shabazz based on the defensive side of the ball and the difference in athleticism. I consider the two players on the same level currently, but Ante has a much higher upside. I do give Flip credit for trading the pick originally to get two solid players in that draft.

Was always against the Young move, mainly because I see the first rounder having more value, and also because rebuilding teams should not be investing resources in players with major flaws. Young was never going to grow into a PF that you would want starting on your team. He made too much to bring off the bench, and he clearly had no interest in a rebuilding team. That should have been clear watching him and Mo freeze out the young guys.

It is possible that the Young move was made in part to placate Ricky, who had been open about not wanting to start another rebuild. Trading Young for KG seems like a no brainer to me. We don't have the salary obligation into next season, and we have a guy that is more defensive oriented who clearly wants to work with the younger guys. As long as KG doesn't wear out his welcome (by becoming too overbearing), I don't see any downside.

Several were questioning the value coming back for Young, but can anyone point to a team offering up a first for Thad other than the wolves? Young was on the market for the better part of a year, and we were the only team showing any interest. Thad underperformed this season with wolves, so why would offers increase for a player with an opt out clause?

I don't want to give Flip a pass on him trying to please Adelman unless we are willing to give the same pass to Kahn. The POB or GM has to take responsibility for the personnel moves that are made under his watch. Flip came into a situation with plenty of assets and flexibility to work with, and essentially "blew his load" the first season. I think everyone on this board realized they rushed their development part of the rebuild when Adelman came in.

The jury is still out on Flip's drafting as well as his most recent moves. And while we can say that his drafting so far certainly seems better than Khan's, think about just how low of a bar that is. And having a "solid" draft isn't good enough. That gets you to average. Great teams find diamonds in the rough or even a top-notch starter or two with mid to late 1sts and even 2nds. LaVine, Dieng, and Shabazz may all be rotation-worthy players, but we don't know if any of them will ever be good enough to start for a playoff team. We'll just have to see.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Great write up!

2 things I would consider adding would be:

1. Budinger signing - This signing was questionable. Before injury Bud was a borderline MLE type free agent. After losing a year to injury he certainly was a bigger risk at the salary we planned to pay him. I think Flip got caught up in the trying to make Adelman happy with this signing.

2. Keeping Adelman as a coach for 2013-14 season - We used to hear how Flip would be a GM that would be coach friendly. That was a good thought up front, but as the season progressed we saw that Adelman didn't have his full effort in this and Flip tried to show a good face, but he was not happy with what was happening. If he would have taken over as coach it certainly woudl have changed how things are today, but it made that first year just a throw away period as PoB.

I think looking at your list. #1 seems like it comes from the experience Flip had to coach through with Cassell/Spree not having contracts. If you go back and listen to KG's interview with John Thompson interview with KG you will hear KG talk about business being completed in the off-season. I am sure this is something KG and Flip talked about that year. I am sure that experience has had an impact on how Flip handled trying to put together a playoff team and keep Love here. The biggest problem I had with the deal was we were bidding against ourselves. All teams with money had spent it and Pek's agent had no leverage. I think Flip could have bargained for better terms. Just think how much better shape this team would be in if he would have given him a 3yr/36M contract with player option after 1st year and team option for year 3. If a player is healthy and driven they certainly would take that and com back to the market in a year knowing they can opt out for a longer deal or more money per year while having the security 24M guaranteed.

I think the Bud signing was worse than Pek's contract. Bud was off a very serious injury having missed most the year. Crazy to give him a 4 million dollar raise in that situation. No one was giving him that contract except us.

All together I think Flip has done an excellent job as GM. I do think he needs to remove himself as coach only because a GM and Coach have fundamentally opposing roles for good reason. A coach tries to get the most out of a player and will inherently value players, where as a GM's role is to be brutally honest about where a player is at, leaning toward pessimism. If Flip the coach thinks he can mold every player he comes across, Flip the GM may miss an opportunity to really improve our team. For now we are young and both roles seem to be working together. But when this core really starts to develop and we need to make tougher decisions, I think something has to give.

I would also add the Payne trade as a mistake. Nice prospect but paid premium price for him.

Bazz/Dieng vs. Giannis/Gobert was Flip trying to win last year to keep Love. Giannis and Gobert were both projects expected to take a few years to develop. Bazz and Dieng brought skills to be able to contribute out of the gate. Flip took the guys who were more ready to play and were hopefully gonna help us get to the playoffs and keep Love. In hindsight he should have gone the rebuilding route, but he was trying to build a team good enough to keep Love which makes sense. Gobert would have been eaten alive down the stretch last year when Dieng was starting in place of Pek.

Getting Wiggins for Love is huge. If Flip hits on our high draft pick, then all of his mistakes will be easily covered up by the Wiggins trade and new guy. Muhammed and Dieng are decent pieces. They may not be starters per say, but they can be good role players off the bench. He didn't strike out on those picks. LaVine could turn into quite a player also.

I think Flip needs to figure out his starting C and PF. Those are the missing pieces I think.