Minnesota Sports Forum

I should be excited about where the Wolves are at right now. After all, Flip has acquired a starting caliber SG who also happens to be one of the better three-point shooters in the League. He re-signed Budinger and seems poised to re-sign Pekovic. He drafted the second best rim protector in college basketball (2nd to Noel) and also drafted a guy who was the #1 prospect coming out of high school just a little over a year ago. Although the local media generally panned Flip's draft, the national pundits almost universally praised it. So why am I not excited? Why do I have this queasy feeling in my stomach (assign from the bad salmon I ate earlier today)? Why do I have the sense that the summer hasn't been a success for the Wolves? I've been holding these feelings back at the risk of dragging others down and killing the moment. But I can't back any longer. Here's what's bugging me and why I just can't seem to get excited about what the Wolves have done this summer and where the team is headed.

1. We remain a team with extremely suspect durability, adding as our starting SG a guy (Martin) who has averaged just under 62 games per season in his NBA career to date. In other words he has missed an average of 20 games per season and he compiled that record as a young man in his 20s. He is now 30 and he's not getting younger. He gets hurt all the time and history tells us it is likely he'll get hurt and miss lots of games with even more frequency now that he's over 30. Pekovic and Love have developed track records of health issues. Chase is coming back from major knee surgery.

2. We will likely start the season with a team of largely one or two-dimensional players and only one player in the starting line up who can make things happen offensively by putting the ball on the floor. Ricky remains our sole ball-handler in the starting lineup who can put the ball on the floor, make defenses chase him and break down defenses off the dribble. Yes, only one of our starting five has this capability. If we keep Barea we'll have one player off the bench with this ability (maybe two if Shved improves). We have Pek who scores down low and rebounds - nothing more. He has no mid-range game; no step back short jumper or any of the things that even Al Jefferson has had with his low post game. Love shoots the three and rebounds. That's pretty much it except for put-back buckets. Martin shoots threes; not much more. Chase shoots threes and moves well without cutting to the basket without the ball. I'm not sure what, if anything, Derrick does well and at this point it looks like either Derrick or Chase will be our starting SF.

3. Speaking of starting SFs -- we don't have one. We have no proven starting caliber SF. I like Chase, but he's never been a starter and based on what I've seen I just don't see his as a starting SF. He's not a particularly good ball-handler and he's not very long. Actually, he has very short arms, giving him an 8'5 overheard reach. That's very small for an NBA SF. It's shorter than Evan Turner, Dwayne Wade, Tony Allen and other notable SGs. As for Derrick, I continue to hope he an play SF, but he's always been a PF, has the size, quickness and skill set of a PF. Our best hope is to re-sign AK47 on a multi-year deal. But then we've added another guy, this one already 33 years old, with a terrible track record of durability.

4. We have only one bona fide good defender in our starting lineup -- i.e., Ricky. Otherwise, Kevin Martin is generally regarded as a poor defender. Love is a below average defender while I see Pekovic as an average defender. Neither Chase nor Derrick can be regarded as a good defender. Williams seems to lack the quickness and tenacity or intensity to be a good defender at the SF position, while Chase seems undersized to be a good defender at that position.

5. We have no high end role players off the bench. No elite three point shooter like a Steve Novak or Kyle Korver. No elite defenders. No elite playmakers. No elite rebounder. Maybe we have a good shot-blocker in Dieng, but he's never played an NBA game in his life.

6. We haven't added any toughness or competitive zeal like a Matt Barnes, Corey Brewer or even a DeMarre Carroll. Ricky and JJ are the only two I see as players who fit that mold and one of them, JJ, may be traded this summer.

7. We haven't added any exciting young players to grow and develop with Ricky and Kevin. Based on what I've seen and heard, I just can't put Shabazz in that category.

I was hoping we'd get an exciting, dynamic young player with upside like Oladipo or McLemore in the draft. Alas, that wasn't possible. I've watched Golden State land Iggy. That's something I could have gotten really excited over, although I understand that may not have been possible given our cap situation and lack of trade assets. I watched the Clippers land both Redick and Dudley in one move. I wasn't a huge Redick fan on a stand-alone basis, but paired with the relatively cheap and still fairly young Jared Dudley with his size, shooting prowess and defensive ability, I could have gotten excited about that. Again, I recognize we didn't have an asset like Bledsoe to trade. I watched Milwaukee sign a 25 year old, durable, multi-dimensional SG named Mayo to a 3-year deal that pays only $1 million more per year for than we're paying Martin. Instead we're tied to a gimpy 30-year old Martin for 4 years. I can't stress enough how uneasy that makes me feel. Being committed for four years to a 30 year old player with a consistent history of injuries is a questionable investment to say the least.

O.K., sorry to be such a buzz kill. But I have a bad feeling about this. Maybe I just need a good night's sleep. :)

The Mayo signing, for what it was at crushed me, not gonna lie lol. I have to say I am somewhat at least warming up to the idea that Baz can be much better than I initially gave him credit for after digging a little deeper. I just really think with Love on this team, he will be able to stress to him how much better his game got after getting into better shape, and I think that will be good for him.

All we can do is hope.

One complaint about your complaining,

You're selling Love's offensive game too short. I don't know if it's because we haven't seen him in a long time or if his interview with Wojo putting a sour taste in our mouth but to just boil him down as shooting threes and putbacks is doing him an injustice.

You didn't mention the baby hook that he was hitting at an ok rate (decent enough to actually go into him in the post) or that face up mid-range game he's got off the elbow where he draws a lot of fouls.

The problem I have with Mayo is that both of his NBA teams soured on him due to character issues. I just don't want someone that will give up on the team that easily. I was happy when we got Martin and although he is injured a lot, if he as well as our other players are healthy during playoffs, I'll be happy.

Woof. Yeah there's a lot of concerns with this team especially the injury history of so many players. Then there's the need for a defensive wing. I can't help, but think of Ron Artest if he's amnestied and how his tenacity would affect DWill.

I still have high hopes for the younger unproven guys on this team. Williams seems to keep improving which is a good sign imo. Although Shved tailed off through the 2nd half of the season he showed some great flashes early on. Hopefully it was a lot to do with the grueling NBA schedule compared to EU.

As far as your bad feeling. Didn't most of us have a pretty good feeling going into last year? Didn't turn out very well. Maybe this will be a bit of the opposite. Lets hope so!

lipoli390 wrote:1. We remain a team with extremely suspect durability, adding as our starting SG a guy (Martin) who has averaged just under 62 games per season in his NBA career to date. In other words he has missed an average of 20 games per season and he compiled that record as a young man in his 20s. He is now 30 and he's not getting younger. He gets hurt all the time and history tells us it is likely he'll get hurt and miss lots of games with even more frequency now that he's over 30. Pekovic and Love have developed track records of health issues. Chase is coming back from major knee surgery.

We are a deep team, I think we will be fine. People get injured, but last year was LEGENDARY. That won't happen again.

2. We will likely start the season with a team of largely one or two-dimensional players and only one player in the starting line up who can make things happen offensively by putting the ball on the floor. Ricky remains our sole ball-handler in the starting lineup who can put the ball on the floor, make defenses chase him and break down defenses off the dribble. Yes, only one of our starting five has this capability. If we keep Barea we'll have one player off the bench with this ability (maybe two if Shved improves). We have Pek who scores down low and rebounds - nothing more. He has no mid-range game; no step back short jumper or any of the things that even Al Jefferson has had with his low post game. Love shoots the three and rebounds. That's pretty much it except for put-back buckets. Martin shoots threes; not much more. Chase shoots threes and moves well without cutting to the basket without the ball. I'm not sure what, if anything, Derrick does well and at this point it looks like either Derrick or Chase will be our starting SF.

We will sign a defensive SF.

3. Speaking of starting SFs -- we don't have one. We have no proven starting caliber SF. I like Chase, but he's never been a starter and based on what I've seen I just don't see his as a starting SF. He's not a particularly good ball-handler and he's not very long. Actually, he has very short arms, giving him an 8'5 overheard reach. That's very small for an NBA SF. It's shorter than Evan Turner, Dwayne Wade, Tony Allen and other notable SGs. As for Derrick, I continue to hope he an play SF, but he's always been a PF, has the size, quickness and skill set of a PF. Our best hope is to re-sign AK47 on a multi-year deal. But then we've added another guy, this one already 33 years old, with a terrible track record of durability.

We are getting either AK or Artest, that I am pretty confident about.

4. We have only one bona fide good defender in our starting lineup -- i.e., Ricky. Otherwise, Kevin Martin is generally regarded as a poor defender. Love is a below average defender while I see Pekovic as an average defender. Neither Chase nor Derrick can be regarded as a good defender. Williams seems to lack the quickness and tenacity or intensity to be a good defender at the SF position, while Chase seems undersized to be a good defender at that position.

Again, I am almost positive we are getting Artest or AK. As for Williams, I am confused. You all say he is a bad defender, but he actually did an excellent job on Kobe. He got destroyed by Durant, Carmelo, and James, but he is super young. People claim he is not quick enough, but he is pretty fast.


5. We have no high end role players off the bench. No elite three point shooter like a Steve Novak or Kyle Korver. No elite defenders. No elite playmakers. No elite rebounder. Maybe we have a good shot-blocker in Dieng, but he's never played an NBA game in his life.

3 point shooters: Bud, Shved (Beginning of last year),Luke (will help not having guys 5" taller on him)
Penatrators: JJ (maybe), Shved
Defenders: Chris Johnson (I have a woody for him :lol:) and Dieng.

Not as elite as you said, but you just complained about one dimensional players, and these guys aren't completely one-dimentional like Reggie Evans, or Kyle Korver.

6. We haven't added any toughness or competitive zeal like a Matt Barnes, Corey Brewer or even a DeMarre Carroll. Ricky and JJ are the only two I see as players who fit that mold and one of them, JJ, may be traded this summer.

I am expecting Artest, but I agree.

7. We haven't added any exciting young players to grow and develop with Ricky and Kevin. Based on what I've seen and heard, I just can't put Shabazz in that category.

I agree on the mayo thing, but from what I have heard, he told the wolves (his agent) "We are not interested, and we are going with the clippers." When they didn't get it, I think neither side called each other because it was passed. Mayo declined, and the T-Wolves were unwilling to get on their knees and beg for a decent player. I did want him though, haha.

Now to be honest, this off-season I am not happy with either. I Used my over positive vibe on all that, but I honestly feel how you feel. It just feels like we missed on all our option A's and B's, and got stuck with option C. I don't know.

I feel good about this team going in.

1. I really like our bench. Injury questions shouldn't hold you back from being excited about this team. I don't think Love will be as out of shape going into this season, plus his hand injury was freakish. Pek shouldn't really be labeled injury prone just yet. Give him another year. If he misses 20 games or so, then yes I agree. Not yet though. Martin played in 77 regular season games last year. Give him a break. He said he feels like his body is 26 so something in how he goes about taking care of himself is different from years before.

2. I get your point about only having one creator on the floor in Rubio. Though, he really is the only creator I want on majority of plays so I can live with it as long as the players around him can make shots, and that's what it looks like we have in the starting five as it is. Not every player has to have multifaceted games. As long as one player's game compliments the next's, and they all do it well, they'll be fine. Not an issue.

3. If AK isn't brought back somehow, this would be our weakest starting position, but I have faith. Derrick Williams seems like he'd make a lot of sense starting at the 3 regardless of if he's truly ready or not. Throw him in the fire and let's see what we have. I know two things for certain. Rubio likes playing with DWill and DWill eats when he plays with Ricky. They have really good chemistry and I'd rather make DWill play the 3 early in the year and find out he can or can't do it sooner rather than later when it counts. HAVE FAITH.

4. Ricky's a top notch defender for his position. K-Mart's a defensive upgrade over Ridnour at SG even if it's only because he's bigger at 6'7. DWill's not as bad of a defender as a lot of you (ESPN posters) make him out to be. We all attribute AK as being a very good defender and DWill's advanced defensive stats weren't too far off from his. AK - 104 Defensive Rating (estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions) to DWill's 105. AK's Defensive Win Shares - 2.6 compared to DWill's 2.1. I understand AK was guarding mostly small forwards and DWill was guarding mostly power forwards, but DWill does have the size/strength/athleticism to guard SFs so I don't see it as a stretch to call him a decent defender. He also played pretty good D on Kobe and LeBron in spurts. Love's average to slightly under average on D. I think his biggest issue is getting back on D during fastbreaks and we rip him for it, but 1v1 D he plays well and contests decently as well. Pek's an above average man defender, he just isn't a rim protector and lacks athleticism that we'd all love him to have. I don't like how the whole defense thing gets thrown in Minnesota's face when in reality, they're not that bad imo. Do we still need one more wing defender? Yes, but the guys we have currently are capable of not getting beat.

5. You just argued that our starters are one dimensional, yet rip the bench for not being elite at one skill. What sense does that make? If anything you'd rather have a versatile bench that can play multiple positions and be productive in doing so. They are. Alexey, Bud, Shabazz, Cunningham and Dieng can all play two different positions. This is definitely good if an injury does happen to occur. I think our bench is a strength of the team, not a weakness like you make it out to be.

6. I don't know about you, but I'd say Pek is a pretty tough guy being that he usually plays through minor injuries. Love is a fierce competitor and you can tell the guy hates losing. Hell he's even vocal about it! We have the competitors to make a playoff run and a successful coach to guide them. This is a non issue.

7. I somewhat agree with you, being that I really wanted Oladipo, but I'm intrigued to see what Shabazz brings. The guy wasn't the top ranked high school prospect for no reason and it's unfair to him to dismiss that. He also scored 18 PPG as a freshman. That doesn't happen every year in college basketball. He has his issues to take care of, but I'd say he's exciting in his own right. The Timberwolves could have been given a present when he fell to 14. Point being, we don't know yet. I'm not writing him off until he gives me a reason to in the NBA.

Flip has had a very good off-season and I do think we're a better team roster-wise than we were last year. That's not even with bringing AK back and there's still a possibility that we could even do that. Have faith with the team Flip's organizing. They haven't even lost a game yet and you're having bad feelings about them. Come on man.

Wow, interesting how we can look at the same team and see things so differently. I think Liip brings up some real concerns. And let's not forget this is a team that hasn't sniffed .500 for how many years? To expect us to transform into a contender overnight is not realistic. That being said we do have reasons for optimism, and knowing Lip like I do, I bet you can expect him to do a reversal in the next couple days and talk about all the good things we have going. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. The one point that really rings true is our durability. If we have anywhere near the same injury problems next year this team is going to hand Phoenix one hek of a nice draft pick. Health is a critical variable for us, and I really don't see any reason it's not going to be a problem.

We have a much better team, going into this season, than we have had in a long time. Going into this season, we have one of the best pass-first PGs in the game, a tall, excellent 3 pt shooting SG, SF is a bit of a question, but we have a couple (or 3) players that very possibly will develop into a legit starting SF, then we have Love and Pek.

Last year we went into the season with out 1 legit starter in our back court that was ready to play, now we have 2. Yes we have questions at SF, but that is better than the vacuum that we had at SG last year.