Minnesota Sports Forum

I haven't been back to Minneapolis recently. But it is a city that I truly love and enjoyed for many years while I lived there. Today I received a message from a friend who also is a former resident and had just been back to visit. Here is an excerpt from that message:

The city is a complete abandoned shithole. They have completely trashed a once beautiful city. Nothing is open. No one works downtown at all, I mean literally. Completely abandoned. So sad. So ugly. Liberalism is a mental disorder and people are fucking stupid. Disgusting.

For those of you who live there, is it really that bad? What's your take on the city today vs 2-3 years ago?

I think it depends on who you talk to, Cool. I've heard stories about how terrible Minneapolis is currently, but I haven't seen any evidence of it in person. Now in all fairness, I live 20 miles outside of the inner city, so I don't have much first hand experience. I do visit a kid that I mentor about twice a month who lives just a couple blocks from the George Floyd memorial...ground zero, so to speak...and everything seems quite quiet when we walk around the neighborhood. I also have 4 kids who all live in the city (3 in Mpls and one in St. Paul), and they report no differences in their neighborhoods in the past couple years (I do worry about them though depending on how the Chauvin verdict goes...I may invite them to move back home for awhile if there are acquittals). Out of town friends of mine ask me periodically how bad things are here and give me reports of how crime is up here. I fact check their information and they're correct...violent crimes were up 20% in Minneapolis in 2020 over the prior year, and car jackings and property damage are also up. The police force is down considerably because several officers have taken early retirement and many others are out on leave after reporting PTSD, so it seems natural that crime would be up. I also think your friend might have driven on East Lake St. where a lot of the businesses that were trashed last summer haven't reopened. It's a very sad part of town still.

I don't get downtown much but it does seem quite empty when I do. I imagine this is happening in other cities also though as more and more people work from home...only one of my kids actually "goes" to work daily, the other three only go into their workplaces a couple times a month and their employers have no plans to require them to go into the office. Commercial real estate is a disaster with companies not renewing their leases. Rush hour in town is practically non-existent. I was downtown for a Wolves game last week and the city seemed quiet but not unsafe...kind of nice to find a parking spot so easy in the ramp. I'm actually going downtown twice tomorrow...Twins game in the afternoon with friends, and then taking my mentee to the Nets game.

Those are my thoughts. Maybe some others here have some more first-hand experience with the inner city than I do. I'd be curious to hear their thoughts.

Thanks FNG. I'm not sure what part of town my friend visited, but I appreciate your thoughts. What's the word on how the Chauvin verdict is going to go?

I've been following it pretty closely...the kid that took the counterfeit $20 and was ordered by his boss to confront Floyd is the mentee of a good friend of mine, so I watched all of his testimony. But other than that, I don't have any information other than what is known publicly and don't have a clue what is going to happen. As you know, it's very difficult to convict a cop, but I think Chauvin's defense team is going to have a difficult time getting him acquitted. Hard to say what is going to happen though. I have strong feelings about three of the cases but am indifferent about the Asian guy. I want Chauvin to be convicted, and I worry about my city if he is not. But I would like to see the two young cops acquitted. Everything I have read about them tells me that they are good guys...I think both of them are involved in a volunteer capacity in the inner city, and at least one of them comes from a family long involved in law enforcement. And it seems to me that their actions weren't egregious and that they were merely following orders...like it or not, police follow a military code where it's not acceptable to question a commanding officer.

I had an interesting conversation with a suburban cop last summer who joined me and two friends on the golf course when one guy canceled. He told me most cops he knows sought a suburban assignment...they were committed to law enforcement but didn't want the more dangerous inner city assignment. But he said many Minneapolis cops were a different breed...many of them actually asked for inner city duty and often not for the most honorable reasons. Chauvin seems to fit this description well...he seems like an angry guy. But I don't see anything negative at all in the young guys on trial. I don't know what is going to happen, but it will be a relief to get this sad ordeal behind us.

FWIW as it's a completely different city in a number of ways but a lot of people here still aren't working downtown (I work downtown) because of the pandemic. I have a friend that hasn't worked in the office since March and he somewhat hilariously worked from home the week before they sent everyone home because of the pandemic. I've been working in the office only 2 days a week since late November. The last week or so more people have been around in the buildings I am in than in the past but there are still a lot of people gone.

My mother in law was working in the downtown area as usual before she recently retired.

Honestly, my immediate reaction to that quote is it's someone making shit political and spewing nonsense. FNG nailed it, tons of people are working from home and many companies have realized productivity didn't take a hit by having people not in the office (which allows them to reduce office space overhead). My work will not be requiring most people to go into the office anymore either. Downtown having far less people is all about the pandemic and the movement to work from home, nothing more.

As far as crime, I don't doubt that the unrest and reduced police force are factors, but people just love spewing their preferred narrative with skewed and ignored facts (not talking about anyone on here, just people in general who love making everything political). With the pandemic and so many losing their jobs, I'm not surprised crime went up a bit. People get desperate which leads to more theft.

I've lived near the border of North Mpls and Brooklyn Center for 7 years now. It's mostly the same, but this past year I've seen more reports of theft/break ins, especially vehicles, and shootings in N Mpls. This has thankfully been mostly S/SE of me by many blocks with the exception of a couple vehicle to vehicle shootings within a few blocks of me. All of that sucks, but I definitely put most of it on the pandemic as recall hearing far far less of that stuff in Mpls in general pre-pandemic, and next to nothing near me. I'm just so ready for us to reach herd immunity so we can start trying to find our new normal.

FNG wrote:I've been following it pretty closely...the kid that took the counterfeit $20 and was ordered by his boss to confront Floyd is the mentee of a good friend of mine, so I watched all of his testimony. But other than that, I don't have any information other than what is known publicly and don't have a clue what is going to happen. As you know, it's very difficult to convict a cop, but I think Chauvin's defense team is going to have a difficult time getting him acquitted. Hard to say what is going to happen though. I have strong feelings about three of the cases but am indifferent about the Asian guy. I want Chauvin to be convicted, and I worry about my city if he is not. But I would like to see the two young cops acquitted. Everything I have read about them tells me that they are good guys...I think both of them are involved in a volunteer capacity in the inner city, and at least one of them comes from a family long involved in law enforcement. And it seems to me that their actions weren't egregious and that they were merely following orders...like it or not, police follow a military code where it's not acceptable to question a commanding officer.

They just have to get this one right. Philando Castile was bad enough and he got nothing. This time there is no fear of ones life defense. They had a damn Firefighter/Paramedic on scene who was pleading with them to let her check on him. IMO between the video and her testimony that should be enough to put him away. It's indefensible.

I personally feel bad for the 2 rookies, and we desperately need police reform in this country (fuck the blue code), but at the same time you have to stand up and do what's right when it comes down to it, especially with bystanders there to back up your story. Chauvin and Thao should have known better, but what can we expect of 2 officers with numerous police conduct complaints against them with little to no reprimand. It's certainly a tough job, but law enforcement needs to be held to a higher standard.

Like others have said it is a combo of pandemic and companies just not comfortable with employees being downtown. I know several companies that are opening offices in other parts of the country that are not opening them downtown Minneapolis. I have been downtown a few times for dinner at Murray's and Spoon & Stable. The general area is a ghost town, but both places were packed. Other parts of town seem quieter than normal, but after moving out of Nordeast Minneapolis 3 years ago I saw the city going in the wrong direction before that. I am glad to be out and can't want to move out of the state altogether. If I was not divorced with school-age kids that would have happened years ago. In my north of 694 suburb life is normal other than masks and limited people to inside sporting events.

My co-worker on Cathedral Hill a huge huge jump in crime. The crime had gotten so bad that people have been mugged numerous times on her block and daylight carjackings etc. She couldn't walk her kids so they moved in with her parents in the suburbs. Her parents owned the home before her and bought it when they moved to America from the Middle East in the 80's and feel though the homes are nicer, but the crime is worse than ever.

The state seems to be doing everything possible to make this conviction stick to the point of being dirty. Hiding evidence, leaking information, announcing settlements, and not letting Hall testify without immunity. It all is pretty crazy for a case that should be easier, but they are not pulling any punches. I was shocked that the defense didn't ask jury candidates how they feel about drug users during the selections. I think the defense has done a good job for the most part holding the beyond responsible doubt front. Last Thursday you could tell he was wiped out and he just didn't have it, but other than that he has done well asking the right questions and doing so in a manner that is not combative. The citizen witnesses were a waste of time. Even the off-duty firefighter was a joke. She was the type of person that didn't get her job by merit and when the defense pressed her on if anyone would tell her how to do her job she was very mattered of fact that she wouldn't listen. The defense got to them all to put on record that mob-like nature they created. The Minneapolis chief of police really also was made to look like a fool by the defense and that he was playing Monday Morning QB. The defense getting him to say his knee was more on the shoulder than neck was a pretty huge win. The state seems to have done a horrible job prepping its group of witnesses in general. They might have been better off not throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks and actually narrowing the focus. I will be curious what the defense does with having Chauvin on the stand. Unless there is something damning in the BCA records I would put him on the stand and appeal to the jury, show remorse, and say from his point of view and the pov of the body cameras the optics didn't look or seem as bad. The defense planned to put Morris Hall on the stand, but he is pleading the 5th because the state doesn't want him to testify, and sadly the jury doesn't know that is because he would get murder or manslaughter if Chauvin is acquitted.

The youtube below won't be popular with some, but how do you prove drugs and health problems were not a huge contributing factor. Murder 2 doesn't fit without a felony, but he was not charged with a felony and I have not seen him accused of one. Murder 3 makes no sense like the judge originally ruled as it was not a random act that put others in danger. If I was on the jury I would give him Manslaughter 2nd degree at this point unless he got on the stand and convinced me why he was not negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O88knFix2fo
(knees are not in the same position for reenactment)

There is simply no winning in any scenario here as some lost their life.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

Cool - I used to work in the heart of downtown MPLS until 7 years ago when I took a job in St. Paul. I haven't been downtown MPLS in the last year, but I have a lot of friends who still work downtown. They've use the same word, "ghosttown" in reference to downtown MPLS.

Most of it is due to the pandemic with the vast majority of downtown white collar workers working from home. I don't think any of it of it is due to the George Floyd aftermath. As the pandemic fades, the downtown will come back, but only to a point. There's a bigger, longer-term problem with downtown Minneapolis that predated both the pandemic and George Floyd's death. Large downtown retail businesses like Macy's have been closing their doors for years. More recently, Target moved its headquarters out of downtown MPLS to another Minnesota location. The Minneapolis City Council is one of the worst in the Country. Instead of taking steps to recruit and keep businesses, they've been hostile to them. They don't seem to understand the importance of a robust downtown business tax base for the economic health of a city, including the ability to fund social programs. Downtown crime was already rising well before the aftermath of George Floyd's death.

On the positive side, the North Loop area remains vibrant and will come back strong as the pandemic fades. There is a lot of residential apartment and condo construction in the North Loop and Mill District along the river. I'm certain Chauvin will be convicted of second degree murder, as he should be. The evidence is overwhelming. The Minneapolis Police witnesses in the trial have been terrific and have helped rehab the reputation of the Minneapolis police department. All of that will help avoid any post-trial riots and help the City come back. But I'm not sure how the City can overcome an absolutely idiotic City Council.

Is your friend Trump, the way he say's "so sad so ugly "sounds like every interview Trump has done in the past 6 months.