Minnesota Sports Forum

I just don't see much improvement happening. There were those 5 games when Roco was good then he tailed off and then got injured. But another year where it looks likes we will end up at the bottom of the league. Really sad that we can't find the personnel and system to improve at all, but this has really been the hardest part of watching this team in the last 5 years.

Some is on the system and some on the players.

Outside of cov, I don't think we're have any above average defenders.

Kat, wiggs, and saric are close to average, but none move the needle on that side of the ball.

Taj and Jones are solid, but dont move the needle.
Kat and wiggs have the ability, but are wildly inconsistent.
Okogie could be a really good defender, but his offense leaves alot to be desired.
A defensive rim protector is the fastest way to improve, but we aren't replacing kat because hrs just too good on ther offensive side of the ball. We need to surround him with ++ defenders that aren't a liability on offense.

crazy-canuck wrote:Some is on the system and some on the players.

Outside of cov, I don't think we're have any above average defenders.

Kat, wiggs, and saric are close to average, but none move the needle on that side of the ball.

Taj and Jones are solid, but dont move the needle.
Kat and wiggs have the ability, but are wildly inconsistent.
Okogie could be a really good defender, but his offense leaves alot to be desired.
A defensive rim protector is the fastest way to improve, but we aren't replacing kat because hrs just too good on ther offensive side of the ball. We need to surround him with ++ defenders that aren't a liability on offense.

Yeah I think you're spot on here. We need to go all defense with acquisitions. Easier said than done.

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Some is on the system and some on the players.

Outside of cov, I don't think we're have any above average defenders.

Kat, wiggs, and saric are close to average, but none move the needle on that side of the ball.

Taj and Jones are solid, but dont move the needle.
Kat and wiggs have the ability, but are wildly inconsistent.
Okogie could be a really good defender, but his offense leaves alot to be desired.
A defensive rim protector is the fastest way to improve, but we aren't replacing kat because hrs just too good on ther offensive side of the ball. We need to surround him with ++ defenders that aren't a liability on offense.

Yeah I think you're spot on here. We need to go all defense with acquisitions. Easier said than done.

Ideally, we'd add a Rudy Gobert type rim-protecting all-defensive big and move KAT to PF. Otherwise, I agree it's critical to surround KAT with really good defenders. I'm not sure we need to or even should go all defense with our acquisitions. RoCo is an elite defender. Tyus and Okogie are, in my view, very good defenders. Wiggins is not and Taj is overrated defensively in my view. Part of our problem has to be our defensive system. It's hard to know. It will be interesting to see whether our defensive improves significantly if and when Covington returns this season.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Some is on the system and some on the players.

Outside of cov, I don't think we're have any above average defenders.

Kat, wiggs, and saric are close to average, but none move the needle on that side of the ball.

Taj and Jones are solid, but dont move the needle.
Kat and wiggs have the ability, but are wildly inconsistent.
Okogie could be a really good defender, but his offense leaves alot to be desired.
A defensive rim protector is the fastest way to improve, but we aren't replacing kat because hrs just too good on ther offensive side of the ball. We need to surround him with ++ defenders that aren't a liability on offense.

Yeah I think you're spot on here. We need to go all defense with acquisitions. Easier said than done.

Ideally, we'd add a Rudy Gobert type rim-protecting all-defensive big and move KAT to PF. Otherwise, I agree it's critical to surround KAT with really good defenders. I'm not sure we need to or even should go all defense with our acquisitions. RoCo is an elite defender. Tyus and Okogie are, in my view, very good defenders. Wiggins is not and Taj is overrated defensively in my view. Part of our problem has to be our defensive system. It's hard to know. It will be interesting to see whether our defensive improves significantly if and when Covington returns this season.

Agreed with everything you stated. Wiggins is very overrated, not the worst starter in the league but he is poor. Saric could become average I think in time, that's probably his ceiling. Like you said unless we got a big who is elite defensively it's probably best to keep KAT as a 5.

If Wiggins was at least avg that would make a big difference. KAT has improved this year quite a bit, however he is also forced to carry most of the offense now too.

I think if RoCo comes back soon they will disappoint us in the tanking department and start winning more games, leaving us with the 13-14 pick.

On defense the weak links are at PF (none are good) on the wing only Okogie is avg right now (I think he makes too many mistakes still). Okogie could become elite. PG is a weaker spot, Teague, Tyus, Rose. None are good. Tyus is probably the best of the bunch.

So the answer is Anthony Davis. LOL

We've had 4 coaches since KAT and Wiggins got here and none of them have had good defenses. It's not a system issue at that point.

being a great shooting team makes getting back on defensive and having energy much easier. Are the warriors defense a product more of their offense? I think so, let's focus on putting pressure on teams defensively and you'll find that defense will come easier on the other end. Gotta have guys that make shots first. But overall I think stopping teams from scoring a100 pts each and every night is tough to do becuz the rules are favoring the offensive side. Gone are the days of hand checking and bodying guys up.

PorkChop wrote:being a great shooting team makes getting back on defensive and having energy much easier. Are the warriors defense a product more of their offense? I think so, let's focus on putting pressure on teams defensively and you'll find that defense will come easier on the other end. Gotta have guys that make shots first. But overall I think stopping teams from scoring a100 pts each and every night is tough to do becuz the rules are favoring the offensive side. Gone are the days of hand checking and bodying guys up.

Yes, better 3-point shooting leads to improved floor balance and the ability to get back on defense. But that isn't going to take us from Bottom 5 to Top 15.

KAT and Wiggins are the constants over the last few years - they have played the most minutes of anyone and play two of the more important positions defensively - Center and wing. You have to start with those two when apportioning blame and then go from there. Since KAT has become such a monster offensively, you just have to accept his mediocre defense and surround him with better defenders.

Q12543 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:being a great shooting team makes getting back on defensive and having energy much easier. Are the warriors defense a product more of their offense? I think so, let's focus on putting pressure on teams defensively and you'll find that defense will come easier on the other end. Gotta have guys that make shots first. But overall I think stopping teams from scoring a100 pts each and every night is tough to do becuz the rules are favoring the offensive side. Gone are the days of hand checking and bodying guys up.

Yes, better 3-point shooting leads to improved floor balance and the ability to get back on defense. But that isn't going to take us from Bottom 5 to Top 15.

KAT and Wiggins are the constants over the last few years - they have played the most minutes of anyone and play two of the more important positions defensively - Center and wing. You have to start with those two when apportioning blame and then go from there. Since KAT has become such a monster offensively, you just have to accept his mediocre defense and surround him with better defenders.

Kahn's also said is not the system and I think players are mostly to blame BUT...Thibs was the only guy that implemented anything for longer than a few months. Mitchell had a different philosophy than Flip on that end. Thibs I do think for a lot of his time used his system and there could be some questions about if it utilized/maximized the strengths of the roster defensively. Meanwhile the Wolves lost one of the best defensive wings in a trade (Butler) and got back one in Covington only to have him play 22 games and you wonder at this point if he will even play the rest of the season. Butler missed a chunk of games last year but the games he did play this year didn't help us on that end. I'd guess we lost more important games to injury this year across the entries roster than last year and at this point we are about the same range of defensive team. That's not good but it's also like we could be worse. If we could just take a step up toward being in the mid teens next year that would be a solid step.

As for GS it helps to have a DPOY type in Draymond Green. Klay Thompson is one of the best perimeter defenders in all of basketball. That's a hell of a combination to start with. If Covington was healthy and played his 70 or so games that would be pretty massive. He isn't going to make us look like the defensive juggernaut of that little run we had after the trade but the difference would be significant. Towns defense is trending towards being an asset not a liability and Covington would help raise that level. Again depending on who is here roster wise and coaching and making decisions there is a chance of making some sort of progress defensively without making some sort of massive defensive player acquisition. I'm not talking about is becoming a top 10 defense but being league average would be nice. I still think a system/coach can make a difference along with some players getting better.

Edit: If you want some hope it's worth looking at the Nuggets. Who on that roster is like a game changing defender going into this season? They jumped from a couple spots above the Wolves to being 10th in the NBA in defensive rating. I guess Mike Malone can coach after all or some young players got better or something.

Who is Indiana's star again!? Oh, that's right, he's been hurt while they hold sway as the #3 team in the East and will easily surpass 50 wins.

DE-FENSE is the great equalizer my friends. We'll never get the star power here to have a top 4or 5 offense, but there is no reason we can't become an elite defense. But first we have to fix the culture, the coaching, and the players. Sigh.