Minnesota Sports Forum

Derrick Rose is out for the rest of the season with a torn meniscus. What a shock (note the sarcasm). Of course it shouldn't take this lastest in a long list of Rose injuries or Ricky's recent signs of improved shooting to convince anyone that it was silly to even consider a straight-up Rubio for Rose swap. I continue to cling to the hope that the stories about that potential deal were hyped WAY beyond reality by those reporting them. If not, then I have serious misgivings about our front office going forward. In any event, we can breath a collective sigh of relief that Thibs did not pull the trigger on any of the reported or unreported Rubio for Rose deals. The old addige that "sometimes the best deals are the deals you never make" definitely applies in this instance.

On the other hand, we heard reports that a lot of teams were making us offers for Dunn last summer. I'd love to know exactly what those offers were and whether we countered them. My suspicion is that Thibs had no interest in trading Dunn and, therefore, never really engaged in serious negotiations to deal him. If so, hindsight suggests that was a mistake. I'm still intrigued by Dunn's defensive potential. But his offensive game is horrible. His perimeter shot sometimes goes in, but it is mecahanically broken to an extent you rarely if ever see from guards drafted so high in the draft. He's also a poor finisher at the hoop, which is even more troubling when you consider the fact that poor finishing was one of the raps on him in draft scouting reports. After three years of college ball and nearly a full NBA season under his belt, he still looks like a college player. Bottom line is this: I have no doubt his trade value has declined significantly from last summer. So I think we have to ride it out with him and hope he (1) becomes a truly great defender, which is definitely possible, and (2) develops some semblance of an offensive game. Hopefully Ryan Saunders will work with Kris on his shot this offseason. :)

5th pick in a weak draft....I was hoping for more from Dunn but if he at least ends up as a Tony Allen/Patrick Beverly 7th man legit rotational player that would be realllly nice going forward

Lets remind ourselves of a couple things.

1. The reporting of Rubio trades is...um unreliable. Were their talks between the Bull and Knicks about Rose and Rubio? Sure I mean it kinda makes sense but I don't think there is any way it was going to be a basic straight up deal. If the Knicks turned that down they are morons. I don't think Rubio was as close to being dealt as it was reported at any given time since Thibs took over.

2. Dunn was thought of very highly by a ton of basketball folks. If teams were offering a lot to get Dunn then you see the value they had on him it's not like Thibs and Layden were keeping some dude they reached for. Dunn wasn't even supposed to be there when they picked. They were supposed to have gotten a steal. This draft class right now is being led by a 2nd round pick it's been ridiculously underwhelming. That's not going to hold true 3 years from now. Dunn brings an edge that often is lacking from this team. It would be cool to see them get another guy that has some of that this offseason.

3. A few of us cautioned about Dunn's offensive game. I'm not happy about being right so far and I didn't see it being as bad as it is was much of the season. However he has been converting the shots he has taken at a pretty solid rate since the AS break and playing better overall. I don't think his shot is completely broken either. One thing I like about his offensive game is that floater he has. It looks pretty legit especially with his length and athletic ability.

Monster -- I agree completely with your take on the reported Rubio deals. As for Dunn, I'd still love to know what teams were offering and whether Thibs engaged those teams. You're right about how highly Dunn was regarded in last June's draft. That was the source of my comment about his diminished trade value. Of course, we have the benefit of hindsight now. And I have no idea whether I would have been tempted by any of the offers Thibs received. I wasn't anxious to trade him at the time. I just would have preferred Buddy. I'll watch Dunn's shot more closely the rest of the season as he continues to get more minutes. Perhaps you're right that it's not as broken as I suggested. But it really looks bad to me and his poor free throw shooting is further evidence that his shooting is fundamentally broken. Doesn't mean it's not fixable, but it does mean he has a steep hill to climb. No matter how good his defense, he has to be a net asset offensively to really help this team. At a minimum, he has to finish at the rim and hit his free throws.

I think it is pretty clear that the Thibs wanted a complete year to assess his talent. They didn't sign free agents they intending on playing significant minutes and didn't make any deals. Now that they have the data they need I suspect significant changes. It has been sobering but the reality was our talent still isn't quite there. Big offseason coming.

lipoli390 wrote:Monster -- I agree completely with your take on the reported Rubio deals. As for Dunn, I'd still love to know what teams were offering and whether Thibs engaged those teams. You're right about how highly Dunn was regarded in last June's draft. That was the source of my comment about his diminished trade value. Of course, we have the benefit of hindsight now. And I have no idea whether I would have been tempted by any of the offers Thibs received. I wasn't anxious to trade him at the time. I just would have preferred Buddy. I'll watch Dunn's shot more closely the rest of the season as he continues to get more minutes. Perhaps you're right that it's not as broken as I suggested. But it really looks bad to me and his poor free throw shooting is further evidence that his shooting is fundamentally broken. Doesn't mean it's not fixable, but it does mean he has a steep hill to climb. No matter how good his defense, he has to be a net asset offensively to really help this team. At a minimum, he has to finish at the rim and hit his free throws.

Personally the deals that would have interested me for Dunn probably would have been trading down a few spots and getting another pick/picks. Thibs and Layden keep things pretty close to the vest but it seems like that wasn't anything they were considering as it seems like Dunn was a guy they likes a lot. My guess is that none of the deals were all that enticing if they valued him. Nobody was giving up an all star for the chance to pick Dunn. The best deal was probably whatever big/bigs the Sixers were willing to offer plus some draft pick. That honestly wouldn't have been enough for me either.

As for Dunn's shot he has hit around 75% of his FTs since the All star break. As weird as Rubio's flat shot is Dunn's is a rainbow. You can see his shot better in person but it looks relatively fluid both (compared to earlier in the year) with his release and how his body goes into his shot. He looks more comfortable and confident.

As for the 3 guards available when the Wolves picked that were debated a lot on this and other forums...Murray who would have guessed he wouldn't shoot all that well? Dunn has been pathetic as an offensive player overall but brought the good defensively. Buddy is now looking the best of all 3 but he is also benefiting getting 28mpg with a legit role and 23 years old. That's how Old Dunn is but he didn't play 4 years of college and is playing a lot of PG which is a difficult position to learn in the NBA. You can give the edge to Buddy if you want but I've seen Dunn basically defend like 3 when a team runs offense. Brit admits it's over the top when he says Dunn's defense reminds him of what KG used to do but damn I agree with Brit (who doesn't hand out much praise for defense) the guy has some crazy potential there. That's a pretty big deal.

There was a tweet that said Philly was offering Noel, Covington and their two late first rounders for Boston's pick presumably to take Dunn. Other reports said Noel or Covington and two picks were offered. I was clamoring for that deal to be made by us. Covington is a defensive stud who I'd swap for Dunn straight up. He's Philly's best plus/minus player by far this year. I liked Noel too but was a little concerned about his looming free agency. Philly made some nice picks late in the first with Luwawu and Furkan Korkmaz who was one of the drafts best shooters. We missed a great opportunity, but we should be in position to add a nice player in the draft and I really hope we don't trade the pick or opt for an upper classman as Thibs is known to prefer as there is virtually no lottery talent in the junior and senior classes.

Dunn isn't going anywhere. He has all of the characteristics of a "Thibs guy": Strong, tough, defensive minded, unrelenting. This team needs more players with Dunn's mentality and physicality, not less.

Q12543 wrote:Dunn isn't going anywhere. He has all of the characteristics of a "Thibs guy": Strong, tough, defensive minded, unrelenting. This team needs more players with Dunn's mentality and physicality, not less.

I agree. Thibs' three favorite players on the roster: Gorgui, Belly and Dunn. They are all hard-nosed, competitive guys who always play hard and take defense seriously.

It is way too early to say not trading Dunn was a mistake. Come on. Can't even get through is rookie year without saying hindsight says we should have traded him. Hindsight doesn't happens for a few years now. The guy is a hard worker. I still think he's going to be a really good player in this league.