Minnesota Sports Forum

Would anyone here have the ability to calculate or find out what Ricky's PER would have been for the month of March? Just curious how it might stack up against the top 10 PGs.

I found a knock-off version of PER that had him at around 24 for the month of March, behind Westbrook, Harden, Curry, and Wall.

But let's talk about where he ranks among PG starters for the season, which takes into account his poor stretch of play as well:

PER - 17th (between Holiday and Payton)
Win Shares - 14th (between Dragic and Bledsoe)
RPM - 11th (between Hill and Holiday)

These are all different metrics that emphasize different things and in all of them he ends up in the middle of the pack among starting NBA PGs.

Here is where he ranks on the Timberwolves:
PER - 2nd
Win Shares - 2nd
RPM - 2nd

So we end where we started at last season: According to strictly the numbers, Rubio is still the 2nd best player on the team. The day Wiggins overtakes Rubio in these stats is the day this team is in playoff contention.

Q going all-in on the Rubio stuff now.

The Wolves seem to be about a 30-win team with Rubio as its 2nd best player. Wiggins MUST show significant improvement next season or this team looks to be in perpetual Indiana Pacers/Atlanta Hawks mode (at best) moving forward.

- Towns could be great offensively. He is bad defensively.
- Rubio is a flawed, yet sometimes brilliant player. He's mostly a plus player overall... not teams have historically been able to build around successfully.
- Wiggins shows glimpses. Then regresses. Then another glimpse. Then regression. Then... rinse. repeat. The age thing has been his pass for 3 seasons. And it's a fair one. But once that extension kicks in after next year... the age thing is superceded by FOUR full seasons in the league. It's going to be a lot easier to claim "he is what he is" if there's not tangible, significant growth next year.
- LaVine is a smooth offensive player. An atrocious defensive one. Now, he's coming back from injury. Fast forward to NEXT summer when we all point to "ok, he's finally healthy and ready to dominate!" narratives.
- Dieng is a backup player.
- Kris Dunn has a chance to be Marcus Smart v2.0... and I'm ok with that if he's coming off the bench.
- Muhammad will be gone. I will be happy.
- Bjelica had moments later in the season. But most teams have at least one guy like him.
- Tyus Jones is a nice 3rd PG. Meh 2nd PG. He knows how to play though... and I'm a provincial rube.
- Nobody else matters.

Abe why do you have to always play the role of Debbie Downer?

KiwiMatt wrote:Abe why do you have to always play the role of Debbie Downer?

1. I'm merely being realistic.
2. I have NOT won the preseason predictions thread two or three years running now. I predicted a winning record. What a dumby!

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q going all-in on the Rubio stuff now.

The Wolves seem to be about a 30-win team with Rubio as its 2nd best player. Wiggins MUST show significant improvement next season or this team looks to be in perpetual Indiana Pacers/Atlanta Hawks mode (at best) moving forward.

- Towns could be great offensively. He is bad defensively.
- Rubio is a flawed, yet sometimes brilliant player. He's mostly a plus player overall... not teams have historically been able to build around successfully.
- Wiggins shows glimpses. Then regresses. Then another glimpse. Then regression. Then... rinse. repeat. The age thing has been his pass for 3 seasons. And it's a fair one. But once that extension kicks in after next year... the age thing is superceded by FOUR full seasons in the league. It's going to be a lot easier to claim "he is what he is" if there's not tangible, significant growth next year.
- LaVine is a smooth offensive player. An atrocious defensive one. Now, he's coming back from injury. Fast forward to NEXT summer when we all point to "ok, he's finally healthy and ready to dominate!" narratives.
- Dieng is a backup player.
- Kris Dunn has a chance to be Marcus Smart v2.0... and I'm ok with that if he's coming off the bench.
- Muhammad will be gone. I will be happy.
- Bjelica had moments later in the season. But most teams have at least one guy like him.
- Tyus Jones is a nice 3rd PG. Meh 2nd PG. He knows how to play though... and I'm a provincial rube.
- Nobody else matters.

I 100% agree with this. Rubio is what he is - a solid starting PG. I've never proclaimed him to be more than that. I spend most of my time defending him as a solid PG as opposed to the albatross some claim him to be.

But yeah, if he keeps on being our 2nd best player, we aren't good enough. I thought this was the year Wiggins would overtake him in some of the stats I mentioned above, but it didn't happen. We NEED that to happen and then add another one or two Rubio-caliber or better vets at other positions to turn this ship around.

I think the funny thing about the Rubio conversation is that relatively most people here agree where his value sits in the league. He's somewhere around the 13-20th best PG in the league. The stats seem to support this as well. In all it is pretty amazing that someone who shoots so poorly still ends up there. I think everyone recognizes his unique talent.

That being said it's such a key position that playoff teams either have a better pg than Ricky or a really effective role player at the point that isn't counted on for so much primary ball handling (Patty Mills). I think we've been kind of stuck in the middle with him, and if his 12 million prevents us from getting the next big piece that puts us over the edge then philosophically I'm ready to move on. There's 3-5 more PGs coming into the league this draft, it's such a loaded position that we may not be giving up much to focus our dough and team toward other players. But if we make a great signing and retain Ricky this offseason I'm still happy.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q going all-in on the Rubio stuff now.

The Wolves seem to be about a 30-win team with Rubio as its 2nd best player. Wiggins MUST show significant improvement next season or this team looks to be in perpetual Indiana Pacers/Atlanta Hawks mode (at best) moving forward.

- Towns could be great offensively. He is bad defensively.
- Rubio is a flawed, yet sometimes brilliant player. He's mostly a plus player overall... not teams have historically been able to build around successfully.
- Wiggins shows glimpses. Then regresses. Then another glimpse. Then regression. Then... rinse. repeat. The age thing has been his pass for 3 seasons. And it's a fair one. But once that extension kicks in after next year... the age thing is superceded by FOUR full seasons in the league. It's going to be a lot easier to claim "he is what he is" if there's not tangible, significant growth next year.
- LaVine is a smooth offensive player. An atrocious defensive one. Now, he's coming back from injury. Fast forward to NEXT summer when we all point to "ok, he's finally healthy and ready to dominate!" narratives.
- Dieng is a backup player.
- Kris Dunn has a chance to be Marcus Smart v2.0... and I'm ok with that if he's coming off the bench.
- Muhammad will be gone. I will be happy.
- Bjelica had moments later in the season. But most teams have at least one guy like him.
- Tyus Jones is a nice 3rd PG. Meh 2nd PG. He knows how to play though... and I'm a provincial rube.
- Nobody else matters.

The Indiana Pacers/Atlanta Hawks comment really hits home and could be right on! Really scary. We all know we still have to be patient with these 21-22 year old kids, but if we hold on too long, we will lose them (as assets) or be stuck with them. I really wonder how much Thibs and Layden are thinking the same thing because they will feel pressured to do something. Would they consider a Wiggins and Dunn/draft pick for Paul George deal or something big a crazy to fix this roster. I would guess everyone but Towns could be packaged for players. Time will tell, but I am very concerned that our studs are not the right studs. I wish I had a crystal ball to see where these guys will be at 25-28 years old. I would take 2-3 more mediocre years with these guys if I knew that ELITE years were coming.

Not everyone gets Lebron or Durant or Kawhi. Towns, Wiggins and to some extent Lavine are our shot at superstars. There's too much emphasis on title or bust. LeBron's team has been to 6 straight title games. The Warriors or Spurs have been to the last 4. That's 3 out of 30 that have been to the finals the last 4 years. You just can't build around title or bust. You build the best team you can and hope you catch a break. If Wiggins/Towns put us at the ATL/IND level you take it and hope you catch a break either attracting a top player to join them or catch an injury break and make it to a finals. How many teams have successfully perpetually rebuilt with the purpose of putting a perfect contender on the floor? None. You build it the best you can and hope you catch a break because less than a handful of teams actually get the opportunity to win a title.

Agreed! However, I feel like KAT/Wigs/LaVine and company would vastly under achieve if we are a 45-50 win team and 3-5th seed. These guys are special. Notice I am not including Dunn, which last summer, most of would have thought or hoped we were going to have a legit big 4. I still think we have a big 3, but I wont settle for a mediocre playoff team. I do recognize a championship is hard to come by, thats why it was satisfying that KG at least got us to a WCF.