Minnesota Sports Forum

We all called for Tyus to be a more regular part of the rotation based on his early season success and stellar +/- numbers. Well, now we know why Thibs was reluctant. Ever since Zach went down, he has had a more regular spot in the rotation. Since the all-star break, he has shot 39% from the field, 28% from 3, and averaged under 3 points per game. He is basically no threat offensively. Yes, he still makes smart decisions and doesn't turn the ball over, but unlike Dunn, he doesn't impact the game on either end.

I'm not suggesting we throw in the towel on Tyus. If we ever get good some day, he's the type of guy you could plug into run the offense and generally trust. But put him out there with other mediocre role players and just one starter....he simply doesn't have the chops to make a whole lot happen.

He's a third PG... he'll bounce around the NBA from team to team... hiding on the end of benches. Every once in awhile, he'll be dusted off to go for a 10 pts/6 ast performance. That's who he is.

As a fan of basketball, it would have been fun to see him in college more. He was built for that game. He was the most composed freshman PG I've ever seen.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:He's a third PG... he'll bounce around the NBA from team to team... hiding on the end of benches. Every once in awhile, he'll be dusted off to go for a 10 pts/6 ast performance. That's who he is.

As a fan of basketball, it would have been fun to see him in college more. He was built for that game. He was the most composed freshman PG I've ever seen.

I'm not quite there yet Abe. He's still awfully young and the poise and decision making are there. But physically, it's just a tough situation because he literally has zero physical advantage - height, quickness, strength, size, hops, straight-line speed...everything is below average or average at best.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think he can still be a reliable 2nd string PG and spot starter as he continues to mature. But like so many other role players, he needs some stars around him.

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:He's a third PG... he'll bounce around the NBA from team to team... hiding on the end of benches. Every once in awhile, he'll be dusted off to go for a 10 pts/6 ast performance. That's who he is.

As a fan of basketball, it would have been fun to see him in college more. He was built for that game. He was the most composed freshman PG I've ever seen.

I'm not quite there yet Abe. He's still awfully young and the poise and decision making are there. But physically, it's just a tough situation because he literally has zero physical advantage - height, quickness, strength, size, hops, straight-line speed...everything is below average or average at best.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think he can still be a reliable 2nd string PG and spot starter as he continues to mature. But like so many other role players, he needs some stars around him.

So he needs the right situation?

Exactly why I see him bouncing around a bit. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But he's a pretty specific type of PG that some regimes will want nothing to do with... while others will seek him out.

If Dunn can't outshine Tyus for a backup PG role next season he's officially a bust and we have backup PG issues again. I still chuckle every time I recall people being ready to dump Rubio and move on with Dunn & Tyus. Good times, lol.

Q, I don't think I agree with your premise that Tyus has been exposed, and that his performance has deteriorated since Zach went down. Yes, his shooting and scoring have gotten worse, but his per 48 numbers (offense and defense) were very strong in the month of March...10.3 assists vs. only 2.5 TOs, and 3.8 steals. His lateral quickness will always be a problem for him in preventing penetration, but his smarts and quick hands make him disruptive on defense. I continue to maintain that Tyus needs more minutes, and especially more minutes at the point, and that he doesn't thrive in games like last night where Thibs gives him less then 10 minutes. Thibs' lack of confidence in Tyus in the face of consistent excellent plus/minus numbers is one of my biggest problems with him.

longstrangetrip wrote:Q, I don't think I agree with your premise that Tyus has been exposed, and that his performance has deteriorated since Zach went down. Yes, his shooting and scoring have gotten worse, but his per 48 numbers (offense and defense) were very strong in the month of March...10.3 assists vs. only 2.5 TOs, and 3.8 steals. His lateral quickness will always be a problem for him in preventing penetration, but his smarts and quick hands make him disruptive on defense. I continue to maintain that Tyus needs more minutes, and especially more minutes at the point, and that he doesn't thrive in games like last night where Thibs gives him less then 10 minutes. Thibs' lack of confidence in Tyus in the face of consistent excellent plus/minus numbers is one of my biggest problems with him.

This is where more analysis is needed.

Is Jones' +/- stats as solid as they are in part because of the way Thibs uses/hides him strategically depending on opposing lineups/matchups?

I don't know. And I'm not gonna look it up. But I think the question is worth asking. After all, there are reasons why bench guys are bench guys in the first place and often struggle when paired against legit starters.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Q, I don't think I agree with your premise that Tyus has been exposed, and that his performance has deteriorated since Zach went down. Yes, his shooting and scoring have gotten worse, but his per 48 numbers (offense and defense) were very strong in the month of March...10.3 assists vs. only 2.5 TOs, and 3.8 steals. His lateral quickness will always be a problem for him in preventing penetration, but his smarts and quick hands make him disruptive on defense. I continue to maintain that Tyus needs more minutes, and especially more minutes at the point, and that he doesn't thrive in games like last night where Thibs gives him less then 10 minutes. Thibs' lack of confidence in Tyus in the face of consistent excellent plus/minus numbers is one of my biggest problems with him.

This is where more analysis is needed.

Is Jones' +/- stats as solid as they are in part because of the way Thibs uses/hides him strategically depending on opposing lineups/matchups?

I don't know. And I'm not gonna look it up. But I think the question is worth asking. After all, there are reasons why bench guys are bench guys in the first place and often struggle when paired against legit starters.

Yes, I think Tyus' consistent good +/- numbers are impacted by favorable matchups...Thibs seldom has him out there against front-line PGs. But isn't that exactly what we want from our backup PG...the ability to not let the game get out of hand when the starters are on the bench? We all know Tyus has physical limitations, but we also know he has been a consistent winner at every level. I would like to see how he would do if he were given more than the 12 MPG Thibs gave him this year.

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Q, I don't think I agree with your premise that Tyus has been exposed, and that his performance has deteriorated since Zach went down. Yes, his shooting and scoring have gotten worse, but his per 48 numbers (offense and defense) were very strong in the month of March...10.3 assists vs. only 2.5 TOs, and 3.8 steals. His lateral quickness will always be a problem for him in preventing penetration, but his smarts and quick hands make him disruptive on defense. I continue to maintain that Tyus needs more minutes, and especially more minutes at the point, and that he doesn't thrive in games like last night where Thibs gives him less then 10 minutes. Thibs' lack of confidence in Tyus in the face of consistent excellent plus/minus numbers is one of my biggest problems with him.

This is where more analysis is needed.

Is Jones' +/- stats as solid as they are in part because of the way Thibs uses/hides him strategically depending on opposing lineups/matchups?

I don't know. And I'm not gonna look it up. But I think the question is worth asking. After all, there are reasons why bench guys are bench guys in the first place and often struggle when paired against legit starters.

Yes, I think Tyus' consistent good +/- numbers are impacted by favorable matchups...Thibs seldom has him out there against front-line PGs. But isn't that exactly what we want from our backup PG...the ability to not let the game get out of hand when the starters are on the bench? We all know Tyus has physical limitations, but we also know he has been a consistent winner at every level. I would like to see how he would do if he were given more than the 12 MPG Thibs gave him this year.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. And I like Jones.

But I did cringe about the "consistent winner at every level" comment. It reminded me of Shaq's famous quote years back... "I've succeeded at every level, except high school and college."

Virtually all top high school recruits are winners in high school. Jones played one year of college ball and did great. But he's played on two bad NBA teams. That's pretty important too.

ah yes just like Brandon Rush, but yet people thought Thibs was an idiot for not playing him more as well