Minnesota Sports Forum

I thought I'd start a thread devoted entirely to the guy who has ignited the Timberwolves fan base and who could be the player who takes the Wolves back to relevance - Jimmy Butler.

I thought I'd start the thread off with some interesting information on Butler. Looking back at his draft combine numbers I noticed that he doesn't have a particularly impressive reach or wingspan - 8'5.5 and 6'7.5 respectively. But he did have an impressive 39" max vertical and and equally impressive no-step vertical of 32". But here's where it gets interesting. Drawing from a draftexpress article I read about Jimmy, here's what I found:

1. Among 900 former collegiate and international players in the Sports Aptitude database, only 26 have an "Internal Motivation" rating as good as Butler's. This puts him in the upper 97th percentile of basketball players. This rating measures a player's self-discipline, goal-motivation and drive to succeed and exceed expectations. There have been 15 players drafted in the past 9 years who have had a score as high as Butlers and 13 of them are rotation players for playoff caliber teams. 9 of them are considered plus defenders.

2. In the same Sports Aptitude database, only 4% of players have Butler's rating combination of Self-Assuredness and Objective-Mindedness. Apparently, these two ratings measure insensitivity to criticism and an ability to act on facts and logic while avoiding sensitive feelings. My comment: This might explain why he flourished under Thibs. Interestingly, my wife and I noticed that Thibs' yelling really got to Towns and Wiggins, but never seemed to affect Gorgui or Zach LaVine. That might explain why Zach and Gorgui improved so much last season, but that's highly speculative and subjective.

3. Butler also fell into the "Aggressive/Compulsive" personality group in the same database. This is deveined as "players who fight for control with a strong competitive edge." This type of player has "an uncanny knack for thriving amidst chaos." They also tend to have "substantially better impulse control and are far less likely to allow personal relationships to influence their actions." According to the article, these playes are the right type to prepare for and then seize an opportunity as Butler did when he worked his ass off without complaining until Deng's injuries opened the door in 2013 for Butler to carve out a permanent spot in the Bulls rotation.

4. Butler also fell into the "Bold/Combative" group in the personality test. According to the article, players in this group are the "green-light ballers" who have quick triggers and shoot with no conscience." In other words, its the guys to take and make big shots. However, the article says players in this category are also often slow to trust and stick to their own routines. Further, "they have a stubborn streak and extreme level of skepticism of others, which can make them resistant to change."

5. According to the article, Butler was rejected by both his parents growing up and was constantly told he wasn't good enough. He wasn't heavily recruited out of high school and ended up attending Tyler Junior College as a freshman where he led that program to their first league title in over 20 years. He was then recruited by Marquette, Kentucky and Iowa State. Interestingly, he chose Marquette for academic, not basketball, reasons. While at Marquette, his head coach (Buzz Williams) was really hard on Jimmy. Buzz said, "I've never been harder on a player than I've been on Jimmy. I was ruthless on him because he didn't know how good he could be. He's been told his whole life he wasn't good enough. What I was seeing was a guy who could impact our team in so many ways."

So here we are. Jimmy Butler is a Timberwolf. He's a top 10-15 player and a top 5 two-way player by almost every reputable account. He's in the prime of his career and I'd guess he's highly motivated to succeed here after getting traded against his will by the Bulls. This isn't a guy who gets down and retreats into a shell when disappointed. To the contrary, this is a guy who revs up and take the challenge.

I was not thrilled with the trade at first. But as I've though about it over the past couple days, I've become excited about it. Reading this draftexpress article today gets me even more pumped about what lies ahead for our Timberwolves with Jimmy. KAT and Wiggins had better have their big-boy pants on when they come to camp this fall because Jimmy won't accept anything less. And that's a good thing.

Thanks for posting Lip.

Thanks for posting Lip! Good read. Agree with your observation and assessment about Zach and Gorgui responding to Tibs.

There couldn't be a greater contrast than Jimmy Butler and Andrew Wiggins in terms of where they came from and how they got to be where they are today. Think about Butler's background that Lip described and his journey through the NBA (drafted 30th, averaged 8.5 minutes per game as a rookie). The guy is the poster child for grit and determination. He has worked, clawed, and scratched his way into a top 12 NBA player.

Then there is Wiggins, a ridiculously gifted athlete whose father played in the NBA and whose mother ran in the Olympics. He's been a highly touted prospect since he was 15 years old, was drafted #1, and then handed the keys to the franchise as a rookie. Entitled is too strong of a word, because I do believe he works hard. But let's face it, his journey, personality, and internal wick are nearly the opposite of JB.

Q12543 wrote:There couldn't be a greater contrast than Jimmy Butler and Andrew Wiggins in terms of where they came from and how they got to be where they are today. Think about Butler's background that Lip described and his journey through the NBA (drafted 30th, averaged 8.5 minutes per game as a rookie). The guy is the poster child for grit and determination. He has worked, clawed, and scratched his way into a top 12 NBA player.

Then there is Wiggins, a ridiculously gifted athlete whose father played in the NBA and whose mother ran in the Olympics. He's been a highly touted prospect since he was 15 years old, was drafted #1, and then handed the keys to the franchise as a rookie. Entitled is too strong of a word, because I do believe he works hard. But let's face it, his journey, personality, and internal wick are nearly the opposite of JB.

I agree. I come back to JVG's surprise answer to Barriero's question about whether Butler would fit in here with the other guys. I think the question was whether Butler might be disruptive or something to that effect. JVG's answer was, "I hope so." If not, JVG continued, "Butler wouldn't be doing his job as a leader." I think Butler's going to come in a really challenge Wiggins and KAT to tap into a deeper level of effort, intensity and urgency on the court and in practice -- similar to what Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant did. What I like about Wiggins is that he's not a jerk or a huge ego. He seems like a good guy who works hard. He just lacks a level of intensity that the great players have always had. Perhaps Butler help bring out more consistency intensity in Wiggins. And he can, perhaps, pierce through KAT's ego and get him to play defense with the same ferocity we see from KAT scoring and rebounding. One of the reasons I'd still like to see Bazz come back is that he has that high motor that eventually brings out the best in players.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:There couldn't be a greater contrast than Jimmy Butler and Andrew Wiggins in terms of where they came from and how they got to be where they are today. Think about Butler's background that Lip described and his journey through the NBA (drafted 30th, averaged 8.5 minutes per game as a rookie). The guy is the poster child for grit and determination. He has worked, clawed, and scratched his way into a top 12 NBA player.

Then there is Wiggins, a ridiculously gifted athlete whose father played in the NBA and whose mother ran in the Olympics. He's been a highly touted prospect since he was 15 years old, was drafted #1, and then handed the keys to the franchise as a rookie. Entitled is too strong of a word, because I do believe he works hard. But let's face it, his journey, personality, and internal wick are nearly the opposite of JB.

I agree. I come back to JVG's surprise answer to Barriero's question about whether Butler would fit in here with the other guys. I think the question was whether Butler might be disruptive or something to that effect. JVG's answer was, "I hope so." If not, JVG continued, "Butler wouldn't be doing his job as a leader." I think Butler's going to come in a really challenge Wiggins and KAT to tap into a deeper level of effort, intensity and urgency on the court and in practice -- similar to what Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant did. What I like about Wiggins is that he's not a jerk or a huge ego. He seems like a good guy who works hard. He just lacks a level of intensity that the great players have always had. Perhaps Butler help bring out more consistency intensity in Wiggins. And he can, perhaps, pierce through KAT's ego and get him to play defense with the same ferocity we see from KAT scoring and rebounding. One of the reasons I'd still like to see Bazz come back is that he has that high motor that eventually brings out the best in players.

I just remember that brief period the season before last where KG and Prince started alongside Wiggins, KAT, and Rubio. That starting 5 had a defensive rating of 92.6. Do you know what the starting 5 of the #1 defense Spurs rating was? 96.1.

The point is when you get one really good defender who also happens to be a force of personality, it can rub off on the other guys. Now a wing can't impact the defense in the same way a big can. But still, I have to believe he is going to make these guys better.

Q12543 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:There couldn't be a greater contrast than Jimmy Butler and Andrew Wiggins in terms of where they came from and how they got to be where they are today. Think about Butler's background that Lip described and his journey through the NBA (drafted 30th, averaged 8.5 minutes per game as a rookie). The guy is the poster child for grit and determination. He has worked, clawed, and scratched his way into a top 12 NBA player.

Then there is Wiggins, a ridiculously gifted athlete whose father played in the NBA and whose mother ran in the Olympics. He's been a highly touted prospect since he was 15 years old, was drafted #1, and then handed the keys to the franchise as a rookie. Entitled is too strong of a word, because I do believe he works hard. But let's face it, his journey, personality, and internal wick are nearly the opposite of JB.

I agree. I come back to JVG's surprise answer to Barriero's question about whether Butler would fit in here with the other guys. I think the question was whether Butler might be disruptive or something to that effect. JVG's answer was, "I hope so." If not, JVG continued, "Butler wouldn't be doing his job as a leader." I think Butler's going to come in a really challenge Wiggins and KAT to tap into a deeper level of effort, intensity and urgency on the court and in practice -- similar to what Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant did. What I like about Wiggins is that he's not a jerk or a huge ego. He seems like a good guy who works hard. He just lacks a level of intensity that the great players have always had. Perhaps Butler help bring out more consistency intensity in Wiggins. And he can, perhaps, pierce through KAT's ego and get him to play defense with the same ferocity we see from KAT scoring and rebounding. One of the reasons I'd still like to see Bazz come back is that he has that high motor that eventually brings out the best in players.

I just remember that brief period the season before last where KG and Prince started alongside Wiggins, KAT, and Rubio. That starting 5 had a defensive rating of 92.6. Do you know what the starting 5 of the #1 defense Spurs rating was? 96.1.

The point is when you get one really good defender who also happens to be a force of personality, it can rub off on the other guys. Now a wing can't impact the defense in the same way a big can. But still, I have to believe he is going to make these guys better.

I'd like to get a relatively young 3 and D guy like Tony Snell this summer to make sure our defense doesn't fall of too much with our bench.

Lip, you want to keep Bazz? Give me an idea of what you would pay him?

Duke13 wrote:Lip, you want to keep Bazz? Give me an idea of what you would pay him?

Bazz will either get a big offer early, or wait for an offer later in free agency. Since his cap hold is over 7 mil, I suspect Thibs will end up renouncing him in order to use some of that cap space.

Unless they can come to a mutual agreement at a reasonable price right away...

Yea, I don't see any way he's back. I'm ready to move on to a more well rounded player. Preferably one that can shoot and dribble.