Minnesota Sports Forum

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

"League sources told ESPN that both Butler and Karl-Anthony Towns have been doing their part to recruit Irving on the idea of playing alongside them in Minnesota, and they've made it known to Wolves management that they want to add the Cavs star to the mix. Butler and Irving became tight in their time playing for USA Basketball together. Towns' father, Karl Towns Sr., and Irving's father, Drederick Irving, are connected through the basketball scene in northern New Jersey, where they both reside.

A Minnesota-Cleveland swap would almost assuredly involve Jeff Teague, who cannot be traded until Dec. 15, per league rules, after signing a free-agent contract with the Wolves this summer."


wtf?

Well that's kinda interesting. I dont see a path where the Wolves get Kyrie eithout giving up Wiggins but maybe I am missing something. There was a blurb on realgm that the Cavs had a big time offer for Kyrie around the draft (Griffin was still in charge) before they knew he was wanting to be traded.

The more I thought about this situation the more I think something changed or came up recently because of Kyrie really wanted to get moved a few weeks ago that would have made way more sense. This whole thing is weird and so has this whole offseason in many ways.

monsterpile wrote:Well that's kinda interesting. I dont see a path where the Wolves get Kyrie eithout giving up Wiggins but maybe I am missing something. There was a blurb on realgm that the Cavs had a big time offer for Kyrie around the draft (Griffin was still in charge) before they knew he was wanting to be traded.

The more I thought about this situation the more I think something changed or came up recently because of Kyrie really wanted to get moved a few weeks ago that would have made way more sense. This whole thing is weird and so has this whole offseason in many ways.

There was rumors of a Porzingas for Irving swap.

The thing is even if you think wiggins for Irving is a good trade, wiggins dosen't have the salary to match Irving. So we would have to give up gorgui with him.

Meaning no starting sf, and less depth and still capped out

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well that's kinda interesting. I dont see a path where the Wolves get Kyrie eithout giving up Wiggins but maybe I am missing something. There was a blurb on realgm that the Cavs had a big time offer for Kyrie around the draft (Griffin was still in charge) before they knew he was wanting to be traded.

The more I thought about this situation the more I think something changed or came up recently because of Kyrie really wanted to get moved a few weeks ago that would have made way more sense. This whole thing is weird and so has this whole offseason in many ways.

There was rumors of a Porzingas for Irving swap.

The thing is even if you think wiggins for Irving is a good trade, wiggins dosen't have the salary to match Irving. So we would have to give up gorgui with him.

Meaning no starting sf, and less depth and still capped out

Actually the Wolves could probably pull a Rockets move where they acquire a couple non guaranteed guys and add that to Aldrich and Wiggins to get enough salary. Kyrie does have a trade kicker so I don't remember if that is included in the amount of salary you take back out in a trade or not. If the Wolves were willing to give up Wiggins to get Kyrie I'm sure both teams would have interest in finding ways to make that happen.

On the other hand depending on how you value Dieng unloading his contract in the deal could be viewed as a plus. I doubt Thibs thinks that.

As you pointed out having Teague and Kyrie on the roster for a few months would be weird and there would be no starting SF although suddenly some guys would have lots of interest in coming here to play at that spot. Maybe Wade puts more pressure for the buyout from Chicago to be the Wolves starting SG. Ugh this league is nuts.

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well that's kinda interesting. I dont see a path where the Wolves get Kyrie eithout giving up Wiggins but maybe I am missing something. There was a blurb on realgm that the Cavs had a big time offer for Kyrie around the draft (Griffin was still in charge) before they knew he was wanting to be traded.

The more I thought about this situation the more I think something changed or came up recently because of Kyrie really wanted to get moved a few weeks ago that would have made way more sense. This whole thing is weird and so has this whole offseason in many ways.

There was rumors of a Porzingas for Irving swap.

The thing is even if you think wiggins for Irving is a good trade, wiggins dosen't have the salary to match Irving. So we would have to give up gorgui with him.

Meaning no starting sf, and less depth and still capped out

Actually the Wolves could probably pull a Rockets move where they acquire a couple non guaranteed guys and add that to Aldrich and Wiggins to get enough salary. Kyrie does have a trade kicker so I don't remember if that is included in the amount of salary you take back out in a trade or not. If the Wolves were willing to give up Wiggins to get Kyrie I'm sure both teams would have interest in finding ways to make that happen.

On the other hand depending on how you value Dieng unloading his contract in the deal could be viewed as a plus. I doubt Thibs thinks that.

As you pointed out having Teague and Kyrie on the roster for a few months would be weird and there would be no starting SF although suddenly some guys would have lots of interest in coming here to play at that spot. Maybe Wade puts more pressure for the buyout from Chicago to be the Wolves starting SG. Ugh this league is nuts.

League is nuts and at least we are at the big boy table

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well that's kinda interesting. I dont see a path where the Wolves get Kyrie eithout giving up Wiggins but maybe I am missing something. There was a blurb on realgm that the Cavs had a big time offer for Kyrie around the draft (Griffin was still in charge) before they knew he was wanting to be traded.

The more I thought about this situation the more I think something changed or came up recently because of Kyrie really wanted to get moved a few weeks ago that would have made way more sense. This whole thing is weird and so has this whole offseason in many ways.

There was rumors of a Porzingas for Irving swap.

The thing is even if you think wiggins for Irving is a good trade, wiggins dosen't have the salary to match Irving. So we would have to give up gorgui with him.

Meaning no starting sf, and less depth and still capped out

Actually the Wolves could probably pull a Rockets move where they acquire a couple non guaranteed guys and add that to Aldrich and Wiggins to get enough salary. Kyrie does have a trade kicker so I don't remember if that is included in the amount of salary you take back out in a trade or not. If the Wolves were willing to give up Wiggins to get Kyrie I'm sure both teams would have interest in finding ways to make that happen.

On the other hand depending on how you value Dieng unloading his contract in the deal could be viewed as a plus. I doubt Thibs thinks that.

As you pointed out having Teague and Kyrie on the roster for a few months would be weird and there would be no starting SF although suddenly some guys would have lots of interest in coming here to play at that spot. Maybe Wade puts more pressure for the buyout from Chicago to be the Wolves starting SG. Ugh this league is nuts.

Monster -- Teams don't just give away non-guaranteed contracts. They typically expect draft picks in return and we don't have any to give except the OKC pick we got for Rubio. I really like Kyrie, but I wouldn't give up Wiggins and Gorgui to get him and neither would Thibs for several reasons: First, we'd have an incredibly unbalanced roster, severely lacking at the SF and PF positions, with no cap room or exceptions to adequately restore any semblance of balance. Second, we'd lose our best defender (Gorgui) and a potentially very good defender (Wiggins) for a great offensive player who doesn't play much defense. Third, while we'd have Kyrie on a relatively reasonable contract for I think 3 years, we'd face a huge payday for him at the end of that period. In contrast, we can lock up Wiggins for 6 years with an extension this summer. So while intriguing, I don't see a deal happening and I definitely would not trade Wiggins and Gorgui.

Too bad we can't deal Teague until Dec. 15. If we still had Ricky instead, perhaps we could swing a deal for Kyrie involving Ricky. Then it would probably be Ricky and Wiggins. That would be more palatable to me since we'd be exchanging PGs and retaining a good player and necessary depth up front.

I don't see Kyrie ending up here for the reasons I gave above. Nor do I see Kyrie ending up in Miami. I see the Knicks as a realistic possibility in a Melo for Kyrie deal. The Cavs could then sign Derrick Rose as their new starting PG. LeBron's a facilitator and Melo is a scorer. It would be an interesting pairing. Otherwise, I could see the Spurs dealing Aldridge for Kyrie. The Spurs would then need help up front. The Wolves could come to the rescue and offer Cole Aldrich for a 2nd round pick. :)

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well that's kinda interesting. I dont see a path where the Wolves get Kyrie eithout giving up Wiggins but maybe I am missing something. There was a blurb on realgm that the Cavs had a big time offer for Kyrie around the draft (Griffin was still in charge) before they knew he was wanting to be traded.

The more I thought about this situation the more I think something changed or came up recently because of Kyrie really wanted to get moved a few weeks ago that would have made way more sense. This whole thing is weird and so has this whole offseason in many ways.

There was rumors of a Porzingas for Irving swap.

The thing is even if you think wiggins for Irving is a good trade, wiggins dosen't have the salary to match Irving. So we would have to give up gorgui with him.

Meaning no starting sf, and less depth and still capped out

Actually the Wolves could probably pull a Rockets move where they acquire a couple non guaranteed guys and add that to Aldrich and Wiggins to get enough salary. Kyrie does have a trade kicker so I don't remember if that is included in the amount of salary you take back out in a trade or not. If the Wolves were willing to give up Wiggins to get Kyrie I'm sure both teams would have interest in finding ways to make that happen.

On the other hand depending on how you value Dieng unloading his contract in the deal could be viewed as a plus. I doubt Thibs thinks that.

As you pointed out having Teague and Kyrie on the roster for a few months would be weird and there would be no starting SF although suddenly some guys would have lots of interest in coming here to play at that spot. Maybe Wade puts more pressure for the buyout from Chicago to be the Wolves starting SG. Ugh this league is nuts.

Monster -- Teams don't just give away non-guaranteed contracts. They typically expect draft picks in return and we don't have any to give except the OKC pick we got for Rubio. I really like Kyrie, but I wouldn't give up Wiggins and Gorgui to get him and neither would Thibs for several reasons: First, we'd have an incredibly unbalanced roster, severely lacking at the SF and PF positions, with no cap room or exceptions to adequately restore any semblance of balance. Second, we'd lose our best defender (Gorgui) and a potentially very good defender (Wiggins) for a great offensive player who doesn't play much defense. Third, while we'd have Kyrie on a relatively reasonable contract for I think 3 years, we'd face a huge payday for him at the end of that period. In contrast, we can lock up Wiggins for 6 years with an extension this summer. So while intriguing, I don't see a deal happening and I definitely would not trade Wiggins and Gorgui.

Too bad we can't deal Teague until Dec. 15. If we still had Ricky instead, perhaps we could swing a deal for Kyrie involving Ricky. Then it would probably be Ricky and Wiggins. That would be more palatable to me since we'd be exchanging PGs and retaining a good player and necessary depth up front.

Houston paid cash for all the cheap contracts they acquired around when they did the Chris Paul deal. That's the sort of thing I was suggesting just to make up a couple extra million. So you wouldn't have to give up Dieng in the deal.

Kyrie has 3 years 60 million left but he also has a trade kicker and the 3rd year is a player option and like you said then he has potential to get a bigger payday and it's not a sure thing he would resign.

Jon K said on the podcast tonight he isn't sure anyone will actually be able to put together a deal before the season starts that makes sense for the Cavs because many teams kinda have their rosters set. The timing for this is so weird and Jon said that if he had made this known even before FA he thinks the Cavs could have gotten a really good offer. It's gonna be more difficult now with a number of players not eligible to be dealt.

So do the Cavs try and get young pieces/assets or do they try and get some guys that can help them make one last run? It will be interesting and their new GM apparently is actually well regarded but he is 34 and in a really tough spot. He could use some other guys around him. Meanwhile the Jazz just loaded up with some top level executives under Dennis Lindsey and James Jones is off the FA market as an executive with the Suns. Just the GM moves this summer are whacky enough much less the player movement which has been unbelievable.

Wiggins, Cole, Tyus is enough salary-wise to get Kyrie. Otherwise more likely it would be Wiggins and Dieng. Towns/Gibson/Belly/Cole would be the frontcourt in that scenario which is passable for a year. You could go out and get Thabo and Afflalo to play the wing next to Crawford.

Irving/Teague
Afflalo/Crawford
Butler/Thabo
Gibson/Belly
Towns/Cole/Patton

Teague then becomes a trade chip at the deadline or he's just an overpaid backup for 2 years. It's not ideal for this season, but super teams usually take a few years to round out anyway. I personally don't do the deal, but I see the value in it if he and Butler are good buddies. That bodes well for keeping both and having a presence on Team USA is becoming a bigger deal every day with CP3 picking Houston and Durant joining the Warriors. We have the assets and there's still a lot left in free agency to help us fill in the team this year and then we'll have better resources next year to form the team around them.

Just WTF Kyrie? Why not do this a month ago before the draft and free agency when trades were actually possible? The Cavs are going to get screwed in the trade and it's likely both teams will end up with lopsided rosters.

Personally, I'm not sure I want Kyrie, especially because there's no trade that makes sense with our roster as it is constructed now. I've been swearing up and down we should have traded Wiggins for Paul George, and I stand by that, but trading Wiggins for Irving while keeping Teague until December would just be super weird and we'd have a ridiculous hole in our roster. And when we did trade Teague, we definitely wouldn't get equal value for him because teams would know we'd be offloading him. Now, if the Cavs wait until December and then somehow we convince them to build a trade around Irving for Teague, then ok! But the Cavs will definitely get a better offer than one built around Teague, and they will want to get this trade done before the season.

Man, Kyrie really put them in between a rock and a hard place. To get the best deal, they may have to wait until the free agents who signed this year can be traded, but that would also risk having a cloud hang over their team and setting up an imbalanced roster for a playoff run in what could be LeBron's last year in Cleveland if they aren't competitive. This is just a disaster for the Cavs and not really a good situation for anybody else.