Minnesota Sports Forum

Interesting read. It will be interesting to see how everything comes together. I am personally a little more worried about Wiggins at this point. Firing his agent points to some turmoil in his camp.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/28/kevin-durant-wonders-who-will-be-willing-to-sacrifice-to-win-in-minnesota/

Interesting that Durant says Teague can't shoot, since that has always been our complaint about Rubio. Teague's career shooting numbers are better than Ricky's, but I pointed out at the time of the deal that Ricky was the better shooter the last half of last season...admittedly a small sample size, but perhaps indicative of the different direction these guys are going. I'm still against Thibs' decision that Teague is a better option at PG than Teague, but would like to admit I am wrong if Teague has a better season than Ricky. I'm hoping Teague's reputed tougher defense against pick and rolls will turn me around in this deal. I'm not a Teague detractor at all...just prefer Ricky.

longstrangetrip wrote:Interesting that Durant says Teague can't shoot, since that has always been our complaint about Rubio. Teague's career shooting numbers are better than Ricky's, but I pointed out at the time of the deal that Ricky was the better shooter the last half of last season...admittedly a small sample size, but perhaps indicative of the different direction these guys are going. I'm still against Thibs' decision that Teague is a better option at PG than Teague, but would like to admit I am wrong if Teague has a better season than Ricky. I'm hoping Teague's reputed tougher defense against pick and rolls will turn me around in this deal. I'm not a Teague detractor at all...just prefer Ricky.

Remember, Cleveland forced Teague into being THE shooter in that 2015 ECF. They repeatedly went under screens forcing him to shoot. He looked tentative in doing so... but still ended up taking 76 shots compared to 43 for the next highest Hawks player. It was highly effective for the Cavs.

Ironically, that series is one of the ones that I always remembered when discussing how the Wolves would do with Rubio in the playoffs eventually.

One thing people tend to forget is Lavine was putting up close to 20ppg last season and there was plenty to go around. Sure Lavine was a floor spacer with his shooting but Butler is so much better as a facilitator so that helps everyone too.

If Teague can't shoot...well he is still a pretty big upgrade over what Rubio has been and let's be honest likely to be.

I think Durant's main point is very valid these guys are going to have to sacrifice. I could see Teague being a guy that scores less but gets things going for the offense. What makes that group really interesting is all of them have the ability to beat you from about any spot on the floor. put Belly on the floor with those guys and you have 5 guys that can to some extent shoot the ball, initiate offense, drive etc. You can do all kinds of stuff with guys that can do a lot of different things and aren't just specialists.

Durant definitely had some sobering, and yet truthful, things to say about our beloved Wolves. When saying Teague is a better shooter than Ricky, while that maybe true, he also shoots more so some of Rubio's ineffectiveness in that realm was mitigated by his low volume of shooting. I think this Wolves team is a playoff team, but they're not a contender (so basically I agree with everyone here). They will need better defense (which will improve a lot this year I think with GIbson and Butler added to the mix, and another year for our young core) and better 3 point shooting than we have right now.

One other thing to think about is that we now need a long term answer at PG. We had one with Rubio, and whether Teague is a better or worse fit for our Wolves, he's not our long term solution (he's too old for that), and he's on a 1-2 year deal. Hopefully we can lure a sharpshooting PG whether it be in FA or the draft in the next year or two.

mrhockey89 wrote:Durant definitely had some sobering, and yet truthful, things to say about our beloved Wolves. When saying Teague is a better shooter than Ricky, while that maybe true, he also shoots more so some of Rubio's ineffectiveness in that realm was mitigated by his low volume of shooting. I think this Wolves team is a playoff team, but they're not a contender (so basically I agree with everyone here). They will need better defense (which will improve a lot this year I think with GIbson and Butler added to the mix, and another year for our young core) and better 3 point shooting than we have right now.

One other thing to think about is that we now need a long term answer at PG. We had one with Rubio, and whether Teague is a better or worse fit for our Wolves, he's not our long term solution (he's too old for that), and he's on a 1-2 year deal. Hopefully we can lure a sharpshooting PG whether it be in FA or the draft in the next year or two.

Some things to consider.

Teague is 2.5 years older than Rubio and has since becoming a starter 6 years ago has missed 15 games. Rubio has been pretty healthy the last 2 years and he has missed 13 games. It's not like Rubio is some young guy that was assured to be the answer 3 years from now either.

Tyus Jones turned 21 in May. IMHO he is a legit PG prospect.

It's easy to make a case Jeff Teague is a top 15 PG right now. That's a pretty decent player. It's not like the guy can't hit a basket either. Is a he a sharp shooter? No. How many sharp shooting volume 3 point legit starting PGs are there? 10? Maybe some young guys will step up this season to add to that number but as it stands there really aren't that many.

monsterpile wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Durant definitely had some sobering, and yet truthful, things to say about our beloved Wolves. When saying Teague is a better shooter than Ricky, while that maybe true, he also shoots more so some of Rubio's ineffectiveness in that realm was mitigated by his low volume of shooting. I think this Wolves team is a playoff team, but they're not a contender (so basically I agree with everyone here). They will need better defense (which will improve a lot this year I think with GIbson and Butler added to the mix, and another year for our young core) and better 3 point shooting than we have right now.

One other thing to think about is that we now need a long term answer at PG. We had one with Rubio, and whether Teague is a better or worse fit for our Wolves, he's not our long term solution (he's too old for that), and he's on a 1-2 year deal. Hopefully we can lure a sharpshooting PG whether it be in FA or the draft in the next year or two.

Some things to consider.

Teague is 2.5 years older than Rubio and has since becoming a starter 6 years ago has missed 15 games. Rubio has been pretty healthy the last 2 years and he has missed 13 games. It's not like Rubio is some young guy that was assured to be the answer 3 years from now either.

Tyus Jones turned 21 in May. IMHO he is a legit PG prospect.

It's easy to make a case Jeff Teague is a top 15 PG right now. That's a pretty decent player. It's not like the guy can't hit a basket either. Is a he a sharp shooter? No. How many sharp shooting volume 3 point legit starting PGs are there? 10? Maybe some young guys will step up this season to add to that number but as it stands there really aren't that many.

That 3 years between Rubio and Teague is an eternity when it comes to growing with this young team. In 3 years, when this team is potentially ready to be a legit title contender, all 3 of Towns, Wiggins, and Butler will be on one end or another of their prime. Teague will be past his prime, while Rubio would have still been in his prime. That's my point with the comment. Of course, if we end up with the heir to the PG position by then, then this is all moot anyway.

You could be right on Tyus. I was a big proponent of the Wolves taking him a couple years back in the draft. I'd love if he ends up growing into a NBA quality starter. Jury is still out on that though.

Teague is a solid player, no doubt. Top 15? Questionable. Right fit with this group of starters? Questionable as welll. I would have liked to see a Patty Mills or Patrick Beverly type from a fit standopoint. Will this team work and be good? I'm sure it will. I'm just thinking aloud about perfect fit scenarios.

I am curious, had the Wolves not traded Rubio to Utah, I wonder if Rubio and Wiggins would have been on their way to Cleveland in exchange for Kyrie.

mrhockey89 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Durant definitely had some sobering, and yet truthful, things to say about our beloved Wolves. When saying Teague is a better shooter than Ricky, while that maybe true, he also shoots more so some of Rubio's ineffectiveness in that realm was mitigated by his low volume of shooting. I think this Wolves team is a playoff team, but they're not a contender (so basically I agree with everyone here). They will need better defense (which will improve a lot this year I think with GIbson and Butler added to the mix, and another year for our young core) and better 3 point shooting than we have right now.

One other thing to think about is that we now need a long term answer at PG. We had one with Rubio, and whether Teague is a better or worse fit for our Wolves, he's not our long term solution (he's too old for that), and he's on a 1-2 year deal. Hopefully we can lure a sharpshooting PG whether it be in FA or the draft in the next year or two.

Some things to consider.

Teague is 2.5 years older than Rubio and has since becoming a starter 6 years ago has missed 15 games. Rubio has been pretty healthy the last 2 years and he has missed 13 games. It's not like Rubio is some young guy that was assured to be the answer 3 years from now either.

Tyus Jones turned 21 in May. IMHO he is a legit PG prospect.

It's easy to make a case Jeff Teague is a top 15 PG right now. That's a pretty decent player. It's not like the guy can't hit a basket either. Is a he a sharp shooter? No. How many sharp shooting volume 3 point legit starting PGs are there? 10? Maybe some young guys will step up this season to add to that number but as it stands there really aren't that many.

That 3 years between Rubio and Teague is an eternity when it comes to growing with this young team. In 3 years, when this team is potentially ready to be a legit title contender, all 3 of Towns, Wiggins, and Butler will be on one end or another of their prime. Teague will be past his prime, while Rubio would have still been in his prime. That's my point with the comment. Of course, if we end up with the heir to the PG position by then, then this is all moot anyway.

You could be right on Tyus. I was a big proponent of the Wolves taking him a couple years back in the draft. I'd love if he ends up growing into a NBA quality starter. Jury is still out on that though.

Teague is a solid player, no doubt. Top 15? Questionable. Right fit with this group of starters? Questionable as welll. I would have liked to see a Patty Mills or Patrick Beverly type from a fit standopoint. Will this team work and be good? I'm sure it will. I'm just thinking aloud about perfect fit scenarios.

I am curious, had the Wolves not traded Rubio to Utah, I wonder if Rubio and Wiggins would have been on their way to Cleveland in exchange for Kyrie.

So the bet is that Rubio is good and healthy in 3 years when he is 30 while that old fart who basically never misses games Jeff Teague won't be able to play when he is 32? I think that seems like a bit of a stretch to feel that strongly about that age aspect based on their careers so far. Also keep in mind Rubio's relative bargain deal would have been over after 2 years so...something would have to happen there with his contract and there is no certainty about what would happen.

Top 15? I'm saying it's easy to make a case he is at that spot. We all know after the top 10 PGs or so it gets murky. I think it's fair to say he is not a fringe starter he is pretty legit as a starting PG right? Right now in the NBA that makes you a pretty good player.

As for fit...yeah it's not perfect...unless we see it work out on the court. We are likely going to see what Beverly and Mills are this season and I like them both I like your idea of those guys. Are they really good complimentary players or do they have more to their games? Both will likely be playing bigger roles for their teams. Beverly told Woj in a podcast he has more to his game. He mentioned he asked for a trade because he wanted to show more from his game. I'll be interested to see how he does with the Clippers. Keep in mind that Beverly isn't exactly a guy jacking up a ton of 3's either (compared to Teague) and he played for a franchise that prods you to get them up. I love the guy but he is far from an iron man also. I have said so think Teague is a bit of a key to this offense. If he figures out his role and run the team and finds his role I think a lot of the rest falls into place. He has a lot of experience running a team both for playoff teams in the regular season and has a lot of playoff experience. His legit vet experience will be likely help a lot. If we are talking the best fit possible within reason thatvwas probably George Hill who reportedly wasn't interested in coming here plus he can't stay healthy. He can defend shoot the 3 playoff the ball etc and has playoff experience. It's kinda funny how he turned down all that money and the Jazz have now used two first round picks the last to add vet PGs to their roster. I still can't believe we got a decent assst for Rubio as much as I like him I think we sold high. I think Teague is kinda underrated.

It sounds like Wiggins was never offered for Irving so no I don't think that deal would have happened regardless of whether Rubio was here or not.

Interesting analysis from Durant. I think he has a pretty good handle on the challanges our main guys will face this season. However, I disagree with his take on Wiggins as a guy who needs the ball in his hands to create his own shot. I think the opposite is true. Flip and then Sam both talked about trying to get Wiggins to create for himself. And I hated watching Thibs give the ball to Wiggins to initiate the office in crunch time. The arrival of Butler could allow Wiggins to fall back into a more comfortable role of playing off others -- cutting to the basket without the ball and spotting up in the corner.

Durant made a great point in saying the Wolves need to get the ball to Towns. Durant recognizes greatness and Towns is this team's one great player. I know Thibs is in love with Butler. But he has to design the team's offense with Towns as the focal point. The challenge will be exactly as described by Durant -- i.e., how do these guys ultimately play together. I think they'll figure it out. The good news is that Butler is an excellent passer. So I'm not too worried about our starters sharing the ball. I think this team has two overriding concerns. One concern is the lack of depth at the wing position, knowing that Butler has generally missed around 15 games a season with various injuries. The other concern is the team's lack of 3-point shooting. Those are the two things that could keep this team from being a true contender in the West with the Warriors, Rockets, Thunder and Spurs.

Even if Teague is not a good shooter, he might still be the best shooter of the perimeter players that Wolves have. He was only one that shot over 40% his jump shots last year. Both Wiggins and Butler shot clearly below 40%. That was best season from Teague as a jump shooter, so previously he had never shot over 40% his jump shots. Unfortunately last year Teague had problems in finishing at rim, where he converted only 52% of his lay ups which is well below his career numbers. I don't know if that was just bad year or first symptom that Teague is losing his quickness and won't be as effective in future.

I really hope that having Teague and Butler initiating offense would mean that Wiggins would get more easy scoring opportunities and that since he wouldn't need to spend as much energy in offense would be visible as better defense and rebounding. Unfortunately I'm afraid that if Wiggins doesn't have ball in his hands, he will get too passive.