Minnesota Sports Forum

Remember just a couple of years ago when the NBA was looking like a PG's league? Nearly every team has a capable offensive PG who can shoot from deep and create for others. YES! The point guard renaissance was here. Guys like me could live vicariously through people who at least resemble "normal" people.

Are those days dead?

The constant switching into iso ball vs. the smallest player is becoming routine dozens of times every game. ESPECIALLY when we reach the playoffs. It destroys game flow. And it destroys the little guy. A couple of notes:

1) When did NBA players decide that it's impossible to "fight through the pick" in the PnR? They just automatically switch now and give the offensive player (see Harden + James) the clear advantage without resistance.
2) Does the NBA's "unwritten" rule that the guy setting the pick can move and hold and grab and even tackle (see the NBA Finals) part of the problem?
3) Does anybody even care? Maybe we're all ready for a league of 5 players who can switch every position on every possession. F the little guy.

And how does this relate to the Wolves as we look at the team's future...

Obviously, the Wolves are paying Wiggins $146.5M for a reason. He's one of those springy 6'8" wings that everybody covets. Theoretically. Jimmy Butler obviously fits that mold, too. Does that mean the Wolves are gonna do whatever is necessary to keep both around?

And will we see the Wolves seek out more springy 3-and-D guys and follow the lead of teams like Boston? Or, like the three point shot... will the Wolves buck the future and stick to convention to "be different"...?



[Note: Terry Rozier is playing himself out of Boston. Obviously, he's playing well enough to be wanted by teams... and... he's simply too small, so it negates Boston's strategy of switching every pick when he's always the guy stuck on the island with a much bigger player.]

Yeah it's weird. I've got to think that there will be teams that end up being really good at what they do utilizing some small players. I'm sure Kyrie would be playing this series were he healthy. Bad teams will chase trends, good teams will try to make their own. Boston and GS are really smart in they exploited the league playing to big and slow. But possession basketball still works, that's how we had the #4 offense and how the Spurs found a way to win with lower talent this year. I'm sure if Pop had more talent he'd find a way to exploit everyone being 6'8"

thedoper wrote:Yeah it's weird. I've got to think that there will be teams that end up being really good at what they do utilizing some small players. I'm sure Kyrie would be playing this series were he healthy. Bad teams will chase trends, good teams will try to make their own. Boston and GS are really smart in they exploited the league playing to big and slow. But possession basketball still works, that's how we had the #4 offense and how the Spurs found a way to win with lower talent this year. I'm sure if Pop had more talent he'd find a way to exploit everyone being 6'8"

True. And I think it's important to make a distinction between regular season + Playoffs.

For example, we have Houston (Harden) and Cleveland (James) in the final four... and that's probably not by accident. They're playing the game in their favor. Even GSW for all is ball movement... has the league's other premier iso player in Kevin Durant.

It's also probably not an accident that the 4th team seems to be being built (pre-injuries especially) to switch virtually everything with long-limbed wings.

Interesting thoughts Abe.

If Rozier is the guy we have seen the past few weeks I'll take him on my teams and figure the rest out. The bottom line is that you still try and get your best players on the floor. Did Boston try and get all these guys together that are about the same size or was it also because they are also good at basketball? Is it because wings are the hardest to find in the NBA so why not collect a bunch of them? It's probably some of all that.

As for the switching some of that is because of the 3 point shooting. Not only is it a more valued shot and taking it away more valued players are taking them from even farther out which extends the floor even more. Listening (or reading) to some pretty smart basketball minds some of which used to be assistants at that level it seems teams are trying to evolve their defense all the time. I can see why some teams just decide to switch everything. Even some legal screens are so good and the guy that has the ball gets the ball away quickly you have no shot at defending that play.

The little guy isn't going completely away. So many of those guys are shooters and teams LOVE shooting and rightly so. Sure there are lots of bigs coming into the league that can shoot and some of them can even put the ball on the floor and get free a bit. The little guard are still gonna be able to create more for themselves and others than some of these lengthy guys. We do have some big PGs though as young players and Luka could be the next guy to be that so...maybe you are into something here. Of course I've seen that some teams are willing to pass on him which personally I think is gonna make them look stupid and that was before ypur thought provoking angle of this thread.

Of course you also will have smaller guards like Marcus Smart, CP3 Beverley (if he is healthy) that can hold up or at least put up a pretty good fight against just about anyone when they are switched onto that guy. Smart is obviously in a different category in that he in some ways can play any perimeter position because of his defense but yeah some of these guys can really play on that end.

Was it someone here that posted an article on Roy Hibbert and how within the time frame of five seasons he went from a DPOY candidate to out of the league entirely. Why? He can't guard on the perimeter.

If you get a big guy that can do "big guy things" like rebound, block shots, and finish plays, while at the same time being able to contain guards and wings on the perimeter, that is a big advantage. Capela exemplifies the modern day defensive Center to me. How many times did he switch onto Teague or Butler and it led to nothing because those two dummies thought they could beat Capela versus getting the ball inside to KAT? Horford is similar, but with a better offensive game. A healthy and engaged Tristian Thompson is right there too. And then there is Draymond Green, who is effectively becoming the Warriors' Center at this point. So all four of the Final Four NBA teams have bigs that are really mobile on the outside, but also have enough strength and length to guard the paint too.

Q12543 wrote:Was it someone here that posted an article on Roy Hibbert and how within the time frame of five seasons he went from a DPOY candidate to out of the league entirely. Why? He can't guard on the perimeter.

If you get a big guy that can do "big guy things" like rebound, block shots, and finish plays, while at the same time being able to contain guards and wings on the perimeter, that is a big advantage. Capela exemplifies the modern day defensive Center to me. How many times did he switch onto Teague or Butler and it led to nothing because those two dummies thought they could beat Capela versus getting the ball inside to KAT? Horford is similar, but with a better offensive game. A healthy and engaged Tristian Thompson is right there too. And then there is Draymond Green, who is effectively becoming the Warriors' Center at this point. So all four of the Final Four NBA teams have bigs that are really mobile on the outside, but also have enough strength and length to guard the paint too.

One thing I think Towns does ok at is when he gets switched onto a perimeter playerif he just has to play man defense on that guy. That's not something a worry about. Sure he will get burned some but that's ok so does Capela but Capela holds his own plenty.

You can add Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba to that shortlist here pretty soon. These long, fluid bigs who play a simple game are the new wave.

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Was it someone here that posted an article on Roy Hibbert and how within the time frame of five seasons he went from a DPOY candidate to out of the league entirely. Why? He can't guard on the perimeter.

If you get a big guy that can do "big guy things" like rebound, block shots, and finish plays, while at the same time being able to contain guards and wings on the perimeter, that is a big advantage. Capela exemplifies the modern day defensive Center to me. How many times did he switch onto Teague or Butler and it led to nothing because those two dummies thought they could beat Capela versus getting the ball inside to KAT? Horford is similar, but with a better offensive game. A healthy and engaged Tristian Thompson is right there too. And then there is Draymond Green, who is effectively becoming the Warriors' Center at this point. So all four of the Final Four NBA teams have bigs that are really mobile on the outside, but also have enough strength and length to guard the paint too.

One thing I think Towns does ok at is when he gets switched onto a perimeter playerif he just has to play man defense on that guy. That's not something a worry about. Sure he will get burned some but that's ok so does Capela but Capela holds his own plenty.

Yeah, I don't think he's too bad when isolated guarding a smaller player. It's mostly the PnR coverage, paint protection, and transition defense that is a problem.

Nerlens noel fits that breed. He was such an elite defender in philly. Im not sure what happened exactly in dallas, but would still love to take a flyer on him.

crazy-canuck wrote:Nerlens noel fits that breed. He was such an elite defender in philly. Im not sure what happened exactly in dallas, but would still love to take a flyer on him.

The problem with Nerlens is he's a diva who wants the ball on offense even though he has no offensive game. That's why Carlisle wouldn't play him. He wouldn't just stick to rolling to the basket in the PnR and playing defense. Maybe we have enough offensive weapons that he would realize he's the worst option on the court and just stay in his lane, but everything about his career so far hasn't pointed to that.