Minnesota Sports Forum

The 76ers got Marco Belinelli and Ersan Ilyasova for... virtually nothing despite being only about a .500 team at the time. How's that working out for them?

Regular Season:
Belinelli: 13.6 ppg / 49.5% fg / 38.5% 3fg (26 mpg) / 23 wins. 5 losses.
Ilyasova: 10.8 ppg / 6.7 reb / 43.9% fg / 36.1% 3fg (24 mpg) / 20 wins. 3 losses.

Yeah. But a lot of teams are trying to lose. Heck, Atlanta played those guys less than they are playing for a playoff team. Shirley, it's not sustainable vs. better competition. Ummm... ahem, ahem.

Playoffs:
Belinelli: 20.5 ppg / 46.7% fg / 40.0% 3fg (32 mpg)
Ilyasova: 15.5 ppg / 12.5 reb / 56.0% fg / 50.0% 3fg (30 mpg)

_______

Now granted... it's bad timing considering how Derrick Rose looked in Game 1. He was decent. But it's pretty remarkable that Philadelphia was able to land both of those guys so easily -- and integrate them so easily -- and win so handily.

Those guys probably had multiple suitors. Apparently, they made the right choice going to Philadelphia.

Is this a fluke? Or, are the Wolves destined to miss out on these types of solid buyout players for the foreseeable future? Remember, it wasn't long ago when Minnesota was arguably considered ahead of the 76ers for optimism. Anybody still feel that way?

Players definitely look at style of play and minutes which be available for them. I don't think Tibs is highly thought of around the league, as a coach players want to play for or a style of play players want to play. There is zero chance the two mentioned players have that impact with us. We don't play bench players and our offense doesn't play a style which would best showcase their strengths. Philly does both.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The 76ers got Marco Belinelli and Ersan Ilyasova for... virtually nothing despite being only about a .500 team at the time. How's that working out for them?

Regular Season:
Belinelli: 13.6 ppg / 49.5% fg / 38.5% 3fg (26 mpg) / 23 wins. 5 losses.
Ilyasova: 10.8 ppg / 6.7 reb / 43.9% fg / 36.1% 3fg (24 mpg) / 20 wins. 3 losses.

Yeah. But a lot of teams are trying to lose. Heck, Atlanta played those guys less than they are playing for a playoff team. Shirley, it's not sustainable vs. better competition. Ummm... ahem, ahem.

Playoffs:
Belinelli: 20.5 ppg / 46.7% fg / 40.0% 3fg (32 mpg)
Ilyasova: 15.5 ppg / 12.5 reb / 56.0% fg / 50.0% 3fg (30 mpg)

_______

Now granted... it's bad timing considering how Derrick Rose looked in Game 1. He was decent. But it's pretty remarkable that Philadelphia was able to land both of those guys so easily -- and integrate them so easily -- and win so handily.

Those guys probably had multiple suitors. Apparently, they made the right choice going to Philadelphia.

Is this a fluke? Or, are the Wolves destined to miss out on these types of solid buyout players for the foreseeable future?

I've been harping on the Wolves failure to get at least one of those two guys from the moment we heard they signed with the Sixers. It's one of two things. Either the Wolves declined to pursue them or the Wolves pursued them and were rejected in favor of the Sixers. If it's the former, then that alone would be grounds for firing Thibs and Layden. If it's the latter, then I'd want to know more about why they turned the Wolves down. At the time, the Wolves were a better playoff bet than the Sixers and the Wolves were certainly lacking in wing depth. So you would think we'd at least get serious consideration from both. That's the key bit of information. Did they turn down the Wolves because of Thibs' reputation for not playing his bench or because of his annoyingly incessant barking and micromanagement? Or did they have other reasons unrelated to Thibodeau's coaching? For example, do they prefer Philadelphia's weather a lot over Minnesota's? Do they have friends or family in Philadelphia? Do they love that city for some strange reason? Do they love the Sixers' head coach and, if so, why do they like him and shouldn't we have a coach players around the League would want to play for in spite of other factors like weather? These are the questions Glen Taylor needs to answer.

Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.

thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.

No. The Wolves have been on the other side of that coin... for obvious reasons.

Maybe the players just got confused when Minnesota tried to lure them here?

I guess it needs to be laid out again.

Marco was bought out and any the time the Sixers has a need with Redick injured for a few games. The Wolves were at full strength. Did they have a need for depth? Yes but Marco got to go to ata that had a need right away.

Illyasova is a guy I've said for years is a pretty good player when healthy. He spent time with the Sixers last year. They made a deal to get Trevor Booker because they felt they had a need at PF. That didn't work. So there was a role there for him as well. The reality is that Marco and Illyasova likely had like half the league calling to see if they wanted to play for them. I bet there are other teams and fans wishing they could have lured those guys.

Meanwhile the Wolves bought out Bazz who had a couple moments for the Bucks. Then they signed Derrick Rose who showed some life in the regular season and just had a pretty good performance in a playoff game and was one of 2 Wolves guards that outplayed a future HOF PG

It's worth noting that last season the Wolves were able to get Lance Stephenson and Omri Casspi to sign here and this season both have had pretty good years.

Does the fact or at the very least perception that Thibs doesn't play bench players have a negative effect on bringing guys in during the offseason or during the season? Yeah it's a fair question that even I pondered some last summer. Dante Cunningham almost signed here though and he didn't really have a clear role and ended up wanting out of the Pels to go to....the Nets.

I think Thibs has also been somewhat picky about who he has brought in for one reason or another. There have been times he has gone for younger players over a possible established vet. They had that roster spot open but they could have added someone else and Rose but they kept MGH. They prioritized Bazz last summer which was a mistake. This summer they need to add some of the right guys who will fit in with this team. Defense and 3 point shooting or bust.

monsterpile wrote:I guess it needs to be laid out again.

Marco was bought out and any the time the Sixers has a need with Redick injured for a few games. The Wolves were at full strength. Did they have a need for depth? Yes but Marco got to go to ata that had a need right away.

Illyasova is a guy I've said for years is a pretty good player when healthy. He spent time with the Sixers last year. They made a deal to get Trevor Booker because they felt they had a need at PF. That didn't work. So there was a role there for him as well. The reality is that Marco and Illyasova likely had like half the league calling to see if they wanted to play for them. I bet there are other teams and fans wishing they could have lured those guys.

Meanwhile the Wolves bought out Bazz who had a couple moments for the Bucks. Then they signed Derrick Rose who showed some life in the regular season and just had a pretty good performance in a playoff game and was one of 2 Wolves guards that outplayed a future HOF PG

It's worth noting that last season the Wolves were able to get Lance Stephenson and Omri Casspi to sign here and this season both have had pretty good years.

Does the fact or at the very least perception that Thibs doesn't play bench players have a negative effect on bringing guys in during the offseason or during the season? Yeah it's a fair question that even I pondered some last summer. Dante Cunningham almost signed here though and he didn't really have a clear role and ended up wanting out of the Pels to go to....the Nets.

I think Thibs has also been somewhat picky about who he has brought in for one reason or another. There have been times he has gone for younger players over a possible established vet. They had that roster spot open but they could have added someone else and Rose but they kept MGH. They prioritized Bazz last summer which was a mistake. This summer they need to add some of the right guys who will fit in with this team. Defense and 3 point shooting or bust.

While I didn't mean to pin all the blame on Thibs... or to assume they didn't have good reasons to go to Philly... I still find it interesting. As for Belinelli.... he was a prime buyout candidate all season. It was a matter of where that would be.

He joined Philly two weeks after Redick was back from a 6-game absence. He took Bayless' spot in the lineup... and a few minutes from McConnell, too. Evidently, having one three-point gunner wasn't enough. Or, they wanted one on the court for 48 minutes. Belinelli played 25 minutes in his first game.

Bayless was signed for $27M last season. He's played in only 40 games since... and is mostly in street clothes at this point. They still owe him $9M next season. From what I can tell... Ilyasova was brought in to steal Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot's minutes? After playing high-teens and around 20 mpg... he got a lot more run once Embiid went down.

If nothing else... it appears Brown and the 76ers have no problem switching things up on the fly and changing the chemistry of a team with changing roles, responsibilities, et al. This is one time where it's worked... I assume it doesn't work as well in other cases...

thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.

We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.

I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.

We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.

I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.

George Hill got the same money as Teague, it was the going rate for that level of player at the point. Taj has been well worth the money and filled a huge need for us this year. Imagine if we would have signed Patterson like so many around here wanted. Ouch. Teague and Taj are at or near the top of your list of past free agent signings. Thibs has gone far to improve the talent on this team, I get that you don't like his coaching style, but we are way more talented this year than last.

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.

We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.

I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.

George Hill got the same money as Teague, it was the going rate for that level of player at the point. Taj has been well worth the money and filled a huge need for us this year. Imagine if we would have signed Patterson like so many around here wanted. Ouch. Teague and Taj are at or near the top of your list of past free agent signings. Thibs has gone far to improve the talent on this team, I get that you don't like his coaching style, but we are way more talented this year than last.

oh god Patterson, I didn't understand why anyone wanted him after he choked so bad in the playoffs last year. He's done a laughable job replacing Taj in OKC. That signing would have been worse than any player the Thibs haters blame him for picking up.