Minnesota Sports Forum

I was listening to Wolfson's podcast and he clarified that we offered Rubio + #5 to Chicago. This is BEFORE the draft went down and Dunn ended up landing in our laps.

Still, whether it was Rubio and #5 or Rubio and Dunn, it's pretty much the same end result. It would leave us with - gulp - Tyus Jones as the only PG on the roster.

Unless......Thibs was thinking Butler could move to full-time PG:

PG - Butler
SG - LaVine
SF - Wiggins
PF - ??
C - KAT

While I don't think Butler is in the same league as Wade or LeBron as a "point-wing", he certainly handled the ball a lot for the Bulls last year and would be playing next to a guy in LaVine who could at least bring the ball up every once in a while without actually having to run the half court offense.

Thibs would still likely have to go sign a free agent PG vet to play behind Butler, but it wouldn't have to be a high-dollar guy.

This is really the only way I can rationalize moving both Rubio and the #5 pick for Butler. I'm still not sure I'd be a fan of this move, but it would give us a perimeter trio that could all score and is nearly position-less defensively.

That is fascinating. I guess there should no longer be any doubt about this organizations willingness to move Rubio.

I actually love that lineup. Either Butler or Zach could bring the ball up court. It would give us great athleticism and versatility. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Getting Butler while hanging on to Zach? Sign me up.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Getting Butler while hanging on to Zach? Sign me up.

Yes Rubio and #5 to get Butler is a no brainier. Just get a PG that can play some solid D and hit a 3 that's about all you need with Wiggins Butler and Lavine. That trade was never going to happen obviously.

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Getting Butler while hanging on to Zach? Sign me up.

Yes Rubio and #5 to get Butler is a no brainier. Just get a PG that can play some solid D and hit a 3 that's about all you need with Wiggins Butler and Lavine. That trade was never going to happen obviously.

I like the team as its composed without Butler. He's a wildcard to team chemistry and has battled injuries most of his career and he'd tie up a lot of salary cap. Plus Butler learned defense under Thibs while our players haven't. He's 26 too and when we are ready to challenge he'll be near 30. I like Butler, but he's not the best fit for our team.

TeamRicky wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Getting Butler while hanging on to Zach? Sign me up.

Yes Rubio and #5 to get Butler is a no brainier. Just get a PG that can play some solid D and hit a 3 that's about all you need with Wiggins Butler and Lavine. That trade was never going to happen obviously.

I like the team as its composed without Butler. He's a wildcard to team chemistry and has battled injuries most of his career and he'd tie up a lot of salary cap. Plus Butler learned defense under Thibs while our players haven't. He's 26 too and when we are ready to challenge he'll be near 30. I like Butler, but he's not the best fit for our team.

I agree with TeamRicky even though there is definitely a good argument for the trade. I'm just happy that the Bulls turned Thibs down for several reasons:

1. First, I just can't get past the fact that Butler has played more than 67 games in only 1 of his 5 seasons. And let's face it, at age 27 when this next season starts, he's not going to get more durable.

2. Second, as pointed out, Butler will be over 30 when the young core of this team is just entering their prime.

3. Third, as pointed out, the impact on team chemistry would be an unknown risk.

4. Finally, I'm not sold on Butler as the de facto PG.

I'll admit that I find the idea intriguing, but I'm glad the deal didn't happen.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:That is fascinating. I guess there should no longer be any doubt about this organizations willingness to move Rubio.

I actually love that lineup. Either Butler or Zach could bring the ball up court. It would give us great athleticism and versatility. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

I would have liked that lineup too. Even tough it wouldn't have traditional point, I think that lineup would have still been OK even against full court defense because both Zach and Butler can bring the ball up court. I think Butler would have been good enough for running half court offense. Second half last season when he was playing more like point for Bulls, he had better than 3 assists/TO ratio that would be fine even for point guards and is better than what LeBron for example has ever had.

Defensively they could have matched nicely against any team. Lavine would have taken the worst offensive player among opponent guards and small forward unless they have really big SF.

TeamRicky wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Getting Butler while hanging on to Zach? Sign me up.

Yes Rubio and #5 to get Butler is a no brainier. Just get a PG that can play some solid D and hit a 3 that's about all you need with Wiggins Butler and Lavine. That trade was never going to happen obviously.

I like the team as its composed without Butler. He's a wildcard to team chemistry and has battled injuries most of his career and he'd tie up a lot of salary cap. Plus Butler learned defense under Thibs while our players haven't. He's 26 too and when we are ready to challenge he'll be near 30. I like Butler, but he's not the best fit for our team.

1. Salary cap isn't an issue while Butler is getting paid. The Wolves might struggle to hit the salary cap floor. His contract will be a bargain compared to what we're about to see.
2. Butler knowing Thibodeau's system is an advantage. For him. For Thibs. For the other players. For the Wolves. Young guys mature/learn/improve at different stages and some plateau/stagnate. We can't assume every guy will improve, especially if there's no leadership from veterans showing them how.
3. 30 is NOT old in the NBA. This isn't Jerry West's or Larry Bird's NBA.
4. I think the team might look quite different in 4 seasons. I know there's young promising talent... but I think the odds are actually against there being more than 3 or 4 guys still on the roster in 4 seasons. Towns/Wiggins. Everybody else has enough flaws or is polarizing enough to be up for debate...

_________

1. Nagging injuries. Yes. 65 - 67 games for three straight seasons seems suspicious... and less than ideal. I don't know the nature of them. But I can see why people would be cautious.
2. Chemistry. We hear about the Wolves chemistry. A LOT. Personally, I don't think one season (with 53 losses) is enough to justify it being counted as a decided advantage. But I acknowledge Butler brings "Lead Dog" issues to the team. Obviously, it was part of the dysfunction in Chicago last season. So for him to go to a younger team and relinquish it after the Bulls traded Rose to give him Lead Dog status... seems not only unlikely... but virtually impossible.

I would bet anything if the would of happened Tibs plan would of been to go get a capable PG to start and play Zack 30 minutes off the bench. Butler as the de facto PG wouldn't of happened.

Duke13 wrote:I would bet anything if the would of happened Tibs plan would of been to go get a capable PG to start and play Zack 30 minutes off the bench. Butler as the de facto PG wouldn't of happened.

Like who? I hope you don't say DJ Augustin.....