Minnesota Sports Forum

Thanks

https://m.reddit.com/r/sixers/comments/4o1yqc/chad_ford_five_gamechanging_nba_draft_trades_wed/

Sorry, that's not the full article.

We are smarter than that deal. Aren't we. Aren't we?

papalrep wrote:We are smarter than that deal. Aren't we. Aren't we?

Boy, I hope so...not interested at all on giving up 5, Zach and G, even if it gets us out from Pek's contract. The Bulls board on RealGM isn't at all interested in Zach plus 5 for Butler, but shows some more interest when Gorgui is added. But I think that's way too much.

longstrangetrip wrote:

papalrep wrote:We are smarter than that deal. Aren't we. Aren't we?

Boy, I hope so...not interested at all on giving up 5, Zach and G, even if it gets us out from Pek's contract. The Bulls board on RealGM isn't at all interested in Zach plus 5 for Butler, but shows some more interest when Gorgui is added. But I think that's way too much.

Everyone here might easily be smarter than Chad Ford based on what I saw in that blurb. Good gravy. Heck I might even think Zgoda thinks some of those deals are nutso!

I do not immediately turn down the deal. Let's suppose Thibs has some assurance that come July 1 he can sign Noah and Jamal Crawford... and that Noah is healthy enough to play 20-25 minutes.

Then, we'd have Butler and Noah starting (maybe Garnett gets an honorary start for 5-7 minutes), Crawford leading a second unit with Shabazz, Bjelica, and a backup PG... this is a team that can make the playoffs. We would suddenly have two all-stars in the starting lineup (Butler and Towns) and two more above average players (Rubio and Wiggins). Towns would clearly be playing a lot of minutes, but that's a Thibs trademark.

I like Zach's potential, but right now it's only potential as his defense is sub-par and if his shot is not falling, he doesn't have other ways to help the offense.He's better than Shabazz, but not enough to violate an old NBA rule: always get the best player in the deal.

And next year, with no Garnett or Pek, we can sign another good free agent... Crawford and Noah won't have eaten up all of our available money, although Butler takes a chunk.

petecorcoran wrote:I do not immediately turn down the deal. Let's suppose Thibs has some assurance that come July 1 he can sign Noah and Jamal Crawford... and that Noah is healthy enough to play 20-25 minutes.

Then, we'd have Butler and Noah starting (maybe Garnett gets an honorary start for 5-7 minutes), Crawford leading a second unit with Shabazz, Bjelica, and a backup PG... this is a team that can make the playoffs. We would suddenly have two all-stars in the starting lineup (Butler and Towns) and two more above average players (Rubio and Wiggins). Towns would clearly be playing a lot of minutes, but that's a Thibs trademark.

I like Zach's potential, but right now it's only potential as his defense is sub-par and if his shot is not falling, he doesn't have other ways to help the offense.He's better than Shabazz, but not enough to violate an old NBA rule: always get the best player in the deal.

And next year, with no Garnett or Pek, we can sign another good free agent... Crawford and Noah won't have eaten up all of our available money, although Butler takes a chunk.

How does the bench defense get better with a Tyus/Crawford/Bazz/Belly/whoever lineup? Our problem is defense on both the starting unit and the bench and while our starting unit would be better defensively the bench would still be garbage and an injury to Noah would leave no frontcourt depth at all. Considering how many games Butler and Noah typically miss I don't see that team being more than a 6 seed at best and Noah's not getting any better moving forward. That's a desperate play for a playoff spot with a limited ceiling because of injury issues, age issues, shooting issues and a terrible bench unit. 5, Lavine and Dieng would be giving up 3 rotation players for one all-star and 5 and Lavine could become all-stars themselves. That's a terrible deal and would leave us with a team built like a house of cards with injury prone players as the base.

It got mentioned in the Wiggins/Butler thread how Wiggins has been an Iron Man in playing 82 games in back-to-back seasons. I think we should give the same respect to LaVine. LaVine played in 77 games his rookie year and 82 games last year. Obviously Wiggins played more total minutes, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

We know better than most -- as Wolves fans -- how crucial durability is. Availability will always be key. If you're not on the court, you can't affect the game. We have two wings that look like they have no problem playing full seasons. That shouldn't get ignored, especially when we're discussing whether or not to trade one of them for a player that hasn't been as fortunate in that regard.

khans2k5 wrote:

petecorcoran wrote:I do not immediately turn down the deal. Let's suppose Thibs has some assurance that come July 1 he can sign Noah and Jamal Crawford... and that Noah is healthy enough to play 20-25 minutes.

Then, we'd have Butler and Noah starting (maybe Garnett gets an honorary start for 5-7 minutes), Crawford leading a second unit with Shabazz, Bjelica, and a backup PG... this is a team that can make the playoffs. We would suddenly have two all-stars in the starting lineup (Butler and Towns) and two more above average players (Rubio and Wiggins). Towns would clearly be playing a lot of minutes, but that's a Thibs trademark.

I like Zach's potential, but right now it's only potential as his defense is sub-par and if his shot is not falling, he doesn't have other ways to help the offense.He's better than Shabazz, but not enough to violate an old NBA rule: always get the best player in the deal.

And next year, with no Garnett or Pek, we can sign another good free agent... Crawford and Noah won't have eaten up all of our available money, although Butler takes a chunk.

How does the bench defense get better with a Tyus/Crawford/Bazz/Belly/whoever lineup? Our problem is defense on both the starting unit and the bench and while our starting unit would be better defensively the bench would still be garbage and an injury to Noah would leave no frontcourt depth at all. Considering how many games Butler and Noah typically miss I don't see that team being more than a 6 seed at best and Noah's not getting any better moving forward. That's a desperate play for a playoff spot with a limited ceiling because of injury issues, age issues, shooting issues and a terrible bench unit. 5, Lavine and Dieng would be giving up 3 rotation players for one all-star and 5 and Lavine could become all-stars themselves. That's a terrible deal and would leave us with a team built like a house of cards with injury prone players as the base.

I didn't expect to be popular with my position. But in answer to the terrible defense, we'd be paying an extra $5 mil to have Butler's defense over Pek's "defense" in the next two years. Huge upgrade. And since Lavine is not any more defense than Crawford at this point... and Georgi is only a maybe on defense vs. Noah, I certainly don't let second unit defense be a reason for not doing the deal.

all academic, Chicago recognizes that in that deal, they are giving up the best player, so they don't do it. But I would.

petecorcoran wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

petecorcoran wrote:I do not immediately turn down the deal. Let's suppose Thibs has some assurance that come July 1 he can sign Noah and Jamal Crawford... and that Noah is healthy enough to play 20-25 minutes.

Then, we'd have Butler and Noah starting (maybe Garnett gets an honorary start for 5-7 minutes), Crawford leading a second unit with Shabazz, Bjelica, and a backup PG... this is a team that can make the playoffs. We would suddenly have two all-stars in the starting lineup (Butler and Towns) and two more above average players (Rubio and Wiggins). Towns would clearly be playing a lot of minutes, but that's a Thibs trademark.

I like Zach's potential, but right now it's only potential as his defense is sub-par and if his shot is not falling, he doesn't have other ways to help the offense.He's better than Shabazz, but not enough to violate an old NBA rule: always get the best player in the deal.

And next year, with no Garnett or Pek, we can sign another good free agent... Crawford and Noah won't have eaten up all of our available money, although Butler takes a chunk.

How does the bench defense get better with a Tyus/Crawford/Bazz/Belly/whoever lineup? Our problem is defense on both the starting unit and the bench and while our starting unit would be better defensively the bench would still be garbage and an injury to Noah would leave no frontcourt depth at all. Considering how many games Butler and Noah typically miss I don't see that team being more than a 6 seed at best and Noah's not getting any better moving forward. That's a desperate play for a playoff spot with a limited ceiling because of injury issues, age issues, shooting issues and a terrible bench unit. 5, Lavine and Dieng would be giving up 3 rotation players for one all-star and 5 and Lavine could become all-stars themselves. That's a terrible deal and would leave us with a team built like a house of cards with injury prone players as the base.

I didn't expect to be popular with my position. But in answer to the terrible defense, we'd be paying an extra $5 mil to have Butler's defense over Pek's "defense" in the next two years. Huge upgrade. And since Lavine is not any more defense than Crawford at this point... and Georgi is only a maybe on defense vs. Noah, I certainly don't let second unit defense be a reason for not doing the deal.

all academic, Chicago recognizes that in that deal, they are giving up the best player, so they don't do it. But I would.

What's your plan B when Noah and Butler are injured?