Minnesota Sports Forum

Thought about this watching Jeff Teague during the Atlanta game. How many PGs would you gladly take in exchange for Ricky, straight-up?

Just glancing over the rosters, I see 2-3 superior point guards almost *per division*.

Rajon Rondo
Deron Williams
Kyle Lowry
Stephen Curry
Chris Paul
Goran Dragic
Tony Parker
Mike Conley
John Wall
Ty Lawson
Damian Lillard
Kyrie Irving

That's 12 slam dunks for me, but I'd also consider swapping for one of the following as well:

Jeff Teague
Kemba Walker
Jrue Holiday
Reggie Jackson

Add it all up and Rubio might not even be a top 15 point guard in this league.

At the center position? Much shorter list:

Roy Hibbert
Dwight Howard
Tim Duncan
Tyson Chandler
Joakim Noah
Marc Gasol

Almost all rim protectors, though. Almost like that's the primary purpose of the position in today's NBA...

SG/SF is kind of a catch-all "wing player" category. The number of guys you'd take ahead of Martin is fairly long. The number you'd take ahead of Brewer is even longer.

Sixth Man: if our primary 6th man is JJ, there must be 20-30 bench guys you'd take over him, right?

PF is, IMO, the only position of legitimate strength on this team. Center is debate-able; Pek gives you scoring (which could be easily redistributed to other positions) and rebounding (sorta standard issue at the position) but no rim protection (which can't be "made up" at other positions very easily). PG is arguably a straight weakness given the importance and strength of the position in today's NBA. Our wings and bench have to be among the very worst in the league.

This is a talent-poor team with limited assets for improvement going forward. That's what happens when you draft poorly pretty much forever. Love won't stick around for another quasi-rebuild. The more we get for him, and the sooner we get it, the better. Much as it might suck to suffer through another rebuild, we need to do it right. Trade everything of value on the current roster for picks, tank hard for 2-3 seasons, and pray we knock 3-4 consecutive drafts out of the park. That is literally the only way to build a contender in a small market.

Player for player, there's no way I'd take Hibbert, Noah or Chandler over Pekovic. Not a chance. Also wouldn't take Walker, Teague and Jackson over Rubio.

You wouldn't take Roy Hibbert or Joakim Noah over Pekovic? Do you work for the Timberwolves? These guys anchor two of the best defenses in the league for the last 2-3 seasons. You'd be insane not to take them over Nikola. Noah is also an elite facilitator at his position.

I'm not sure I'd take Walker, Jackson, or Teague over Rubio either... but I don't think it'd be crazy to do so either. I don't think he's appreciably better than those players.

horatio81 wrote:You wouldn't take Roy Hibbert or Joakim Noah over Pekovic? Do you work for the Timberwolves? These guys anchor two of the best defenses in the league for the last 2-3 seasons. You'd be insane not to take them over Nikola. Noah is also an elite facilitator at his position.

I'm not sure I'd take Walker, Jackson, or Teague over Rubio either... but I don't think it'd be crazy to do so either. I don't think he's appreciably better than those players.

Hibbert is incredibly overrated. Little to no offensive game (average hooks, mehh mid-range jumper). The best offensive centers in the league do work against him (Pek, Cousins, Lopez, etc). His help defense is super, but with Paul George, Stephenson and Hill guarding the perimeter, it makes his job easier than advertised. Not an elite rebounder either. I've always thought he was soft on the glass.

I'd take Pek's ability to score an efficient 20/10 over JoNo's impressive 11/11/4/2 line. I love Noah, though. I just think Pek's better right now.

Please don't take away from the defensive scheming of Vogel and Thibs, though. Two of the best in the game.

The advanced metrics have been pretty clear on Hibbert's value, but I'll cede that the defensive schemes are important.

I don't really care about Pek's ability to score efficiently when other teams are scoring just as efficiently from other positions on the floor. The center position is the only place you can obtain certain defensive traits, and the near-total absence of those rim protection traits is, frankly, a strong limiting factor for any team. If I could swap 10 of Pek's ppg (and redistribute his shots to other players) for the ability to block/change shots, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Hell, if he's taking half as many shots, you doesn't even need to be as efficient. While his scoring obviously helps hide our complete lack of talent on the perimeter, he's not providing the team with the things it needs from the center position.

He's basically a first baseman who hits for average and makes a few extra defensive plays per year while slugging 10-15 homers. When you dole out money to that position, you're looking for power. In today's NBA, at the center position, you're looking for shot-blocking and paint protection. You can get 20 points from any other position on the floor - and it just so happens that's where 90% of good teams do.

Horatio -- I generally agree with your position-by-position analysis, although I thing we're better comparatively at the PG and C positions than you suggest. At PG I wouldn't take Jackson, Teague, Williams, Lowry, Conley or Rondo over Ricky. Note that I recognize Williams is a better talent, but his injury propensity and attitude issues tell me to stay away. I still like Ricky's upside and it's become too fashionable to dismiss Ricky based on his shooting while overlooking how he makes his team better on both ends. At the center position, I'd take Pek over Chandler or Duncan, the latter based on age.

As for what to do, I'm not ready to blow it up without one more shot this summer at building around Love. I still see great potential in a Love-Rubio duo. Assuming we end up with 10th, 11th or 12th pick next June, well have some assets to deal --

1. Our 2014 lottery pick,
2. Shabazz,
3. Barea (Bench spark on the right team and reasonable last year of his contract),
4. Martin
5. Dieng
6. Pekovic.

Unfortunately I don't think Brewer, Shved or anyone else on our roster ( other than Love or Ricky) has any meaningful trade value.

I specifically mentioned Jackson and Teague as borderline - you wouldn't swap Rubio for those guys without serious thought, but it's hard to argue Rubio is outplaying either one this season.

Williams and rondo, however, are no-brainers. 30 out of 30 gms in this league would trade Rubio for those guys.

As for assets ... We overpaid for basically everyone on the roster. We haven't allowed our young players to show anything on the court. Pek is maybe our best chip after love, and that's assuming you can find another team that fails to value interior defense the way we do. I honestly don't see many roads for serious improvement.

I think if you keep Love I would definitely take Noah and Hibbert over Pek. However since it is inevitable he will be leaving and leaving soon I would rather have Pek if Love is not here.

Didn't everyone think Love was leaving the last time his contract was up?