Minnesota Sports Forum

Stat here: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_ratings.html

The consensus around the league is the Wolves don't stop anybody. You definitely know this is true if you've had to listen to the Portland, Golden State, and Chicago announcers the last week.

However, if you think Defensive Rating is a good measure of overall team defense (I do), then that consensus is completely wrong. In fact, our Defensive Rating is better than our Offensive Rating.

With more stats to work with... there is going to be a stat to support almost any agenda or idea.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:With more stats to work with... there is going to be a stat to support almost any agenda or idea.

True, but some stats are better than others. Defensive Rating is good because it is particularly unbiased. If the Wolves give up the 7th fewest points per 100 possessions (6th when Strength of Schedule is considered), how is that supporting an agenda?

It's a comprehensive stat. Yes, the Wolves' opponents shoot a high FG%, but the Wolves don't foul much and they rebound most of the missed shots. You have to consider that, and basic stats do a poor job of it. They also play extremely fast, so opponents score a lot of points, regardless of how good the defense is.

Proof that stats can lie. The Wolves are a terrible defensive team - period.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Proof that stats can lie. The Wolves are a terrible defensive team - period.

It depends what you're considering as defense. If it's just making opponents miss shots, then you're absolutely right (26th in opp eFG%). My argument is you have to consider grabbing defensive rebounds (5th), creating turnovers (3rd), and not giving up free throws (1st).

Those are three elements generally not considered defense, but lead to the opponent scoring fewer points. That's why Defensive Rating is a better overall metric.

No, it doesn't matter what you consider as defense. The Wolves are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:No, it doesn't matter what you consider as defense. The Wolves are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

That's just a really poor argument.

kms789 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:No, it doesn't matter what you consider as defense. The Wolves are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

That's just a really poor argument.

A lot of "good defense" is being able to get stops when you need them. Up to this point, the Wolves have not been able to get enough stops when they need them late in games to get above .500.

I don't know if there is a stat for that. But we do know that the team's free throw disparity gets flipped on its head in the 4th quarter for some reason. Bad defense. Bad luck. Or something else?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

kms789 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:No, it doesn't matter what you consider as defense. The Wolves are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

That's just a really poor argument.

A lot of "good defense" is being able to get stops when you need them. Up to this point, the Wolves have not been able to get enough stops when they need them late in games to get above .500.

I don't know if there is a stat for that. But we do know that the team's free throw disparity gets flipped on its head in the 4th quarter for some reason. Bad defense. Bad luck. Or something else?

Totally agree. If it's the 4th quarter and they need a stop, the Wolves are not a good defense. I'm not suggesting the team doesn't have problems, but rather pointing out that this team has a lot of non-conventional ways of limiting opponents that often get overlooked.

As far as the 4th quarters, seems like a combination of bad defense, bad offense, and bad luck. They're a very quirky team in that they depend on free-throw disparity, points off turnovers, and outlet passes. A lot of those things get eliminated at the ends of games. That said, I think there has been some bad luck at the end of games, as well.

kms789 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

kms789 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:No, it doesn't matter what you consider as defense. The Wolves are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

That's just a really poor argument.

A lot of "good defense" is being able to get stops when you need them. Up to this point, the Wolves have not been able to get enough stops when they need them late in games to get above .500.

I don't know if there is a stat for that. But we do know that the team's free throw disparity gets flipped on its head in the 4th quarter for some reason. Bad defense. Bad luck. Or something else?

Totally agree. If it's the 4th quarter and they need a stop, the Wolves are not a good defense. I'm not suggesting the team doesn't have problems, but rather pointing out that this team has a lot of non-conventional ways of limiting opponents that often get overlooked.

As far as the 4th quarters, seems like a combination of bad defense, bad offense, and bad luck. They're a very quirky team in that they depend on free-throw disparity, points off turnovers, and outlet passes. A lot of those things get eliminated at the ends of games. That said, I think there has been some bad luck at the end of games, as well.

It's similar to having a jump shooting team that doesn't have much ability to create its own shots when absolutely necessary. Sure, the stats might be on your side over the long haul... but in clutch situations...

Oh. Wait...damn.