Minnesota Sports Forum

http://www.minnpost.com/sports/2014/11/wolves-playing-style-out-step-modern-nba

Has anybody here ever seen them together?

Perhaps we have beaten this topic into the ground, but since Robson just wrote about the 3-point topic with statistical evidence, I thought I would weigh in.

I have to agree with Q and Robson (if they really are separate identities) that Flip's reluctance to encourage 3-pointers is a drawback. I have talked often about watching the Wolves shoot at halftime, and non-centers other than Zach LaVine, Corey Brewer and Glen Robinson seem to make about 75% of their practice threes. I understand things get more difficult in a game, but the 50% bonus of a made three is so significant, that ALL non-centers on the roster should be encouraged to shoot a three any time they don't have a hand in their face...and I would include Zach, Corey and GR3 in that permission too. Thad, Bazz and Ricky all don't look pretty when they shoot their threes, but they all have a history of some success beyond the arc, and the frequency of their 3-point attempts is not at all sufficient this year. Anthony Bennett, on the other hand, has perfect form on his jumper and hit them at a good clip in college...it's absurd that he hasn't tried one yet this season.

Not only should players be encouraged to take the open three, I also think Flip needs to design more plays to create open threes. A sequence leading to a wide-open shot generally starts with the PG beating his man and penetrating, and Rubio is as good at penetrating and finding the open man as almost any other PG. When he comes back, I would like to see more instances where the SG, SF and PF are all positioned beyond the 3-point line, allowing Ricky to penetrate and find the open guy...similar to the way Pop runs his offense.

Don't get me wrong...lack of three-point shooting, or our offense in general, is not the reason the Wolves aren't winning. It's their defense that is holding them back, as only the Lakers are giving up more PPG (although strangely enough, the Wolves give up the 5th fewest 3-point attempts). I just think that our already potent offense could become even more potent if Flip developed more of a 3-point culture.

Q has called him one of the best writers, so it kind of makes sense! :)

Heh, I'm out in Philly, so no, I'm not Britt, but yeah, I love his stuff!

I try to be balanced about the 3-point thing because I agree with others that we shouldn't have our young guys falling in love with the shot at all costs and jacking it up with a hand in their face or at the expense of missing an extra pass to an open man beneath the basket.

But by all means, those that have demonstrated a reasonable shooting range should be encouraged to take the shot when it's open. And if Bennett isn't going to be allowed to take that shot, than why the hell is he allowed to take 22 footers!? Tell him to roll his ass to the hoop or put it on the floor. Don't be inconsistent by saying he doesn't have a 3-point card, but sure, take the shot that's worth 50% less and only one foot closer! Makes no sense....

I also agree that Flip's offensive sets don't yield a lot of 3-pointers, so even if someone has permission to take it, he doesn't seem to embrace it as a shot that the team should be trying to get by design. That is without question out of step with the modern NBA.

I've wanted to start a thread a few times with this basic premise. :)

All that research to see that Flip over the years hasn't valued the 3 point shot is worth considering. What I was thinking though is with the league shooting more 3's is Flip changing some and yet not wbough to keep iup with the uptick of 3's leaguewide?

I'll keep saying it but its early to say what Flip's absolute goal is for this team on offense. Heck we don't absolutely know what the starting lineup will be going forward around a year from now is beyond Rubio and Wiggins so I have a hard time getting to wrapped up in Flip's offense now. To me I've said it from the beginning is Flip putting guys in spots that seem reasonable for their skill? I'd say for the most pary yes. I've said in another thread that the Wolves have a quirky group of players so it has to be a bit of a challenge to figure out ways to get them all to spots in places to succeed and I would say Flip has done that in general. Pek is the only guy that's struggled and while he has had to do a little more to get off his shot its not like Flip has him doing anything really outside of what he can do.

One thing I'll say about where Bennett is being used that I thought about the other night. That spot on the floor by a PF can be effective in a few ways.

1. Easily set picks creating offense for whoever has the ball and also Bennett as he goes to the basket which he does but without Rubio guys aren't seeing it when he is open.

2. I'll be shocked if at some point Bennett isn't taking 3's for this team and setting screens popping out to the 3 point line will be fun.

3. Getting the ball at that spot can allow him to make passes to cutter since the lane will be open. One of his strengths as an undersized PF is supposed to be passing and I've seen some signs of it.

4. PFs guarding him out there will be in trouble if they close out on him on those jumpers because he can attack that and get to the rim. There will likely be PFs that he will be able to blow past there off the dribble and he will have lots of space to work with out there.

Look I'm not saying that spot is the best place in the world for Bennett but I can see some real logic in him being there. Think about all the players on the Wolves that are better on the sides of the court either shooting (Bud, Brewer, probably Bazz) posting up (Bazz, Pek, Young and even Wiggins) or cutting (Bud, Brewer, Martin). There are also obvious detrements like having your PF that far away from the rim for offensive rebounds but one thing Flip has gotten out of this team is a team rebounding concept which frankly is kind of impressive and will be interesting if it is sustainable. Overall I do see reasons to be concerned with Bennett jacking up 22 footers and no post game but I also think having some reasonable patience is worthwhile as well. Overall I'm fairly pleased with what I've seen out of him and the offense and the team from Flip in general I see it all as part of a process that I think is/was going to be fluid all year even if their wasn't the rash of injuries all at once like we are seeing.

We've discussed the Wolves (Flip's) relative misuse of the three point shot. I haven't ready the Robson article yet (and I'm usually among the first to read his stuff... he's fantastic.) But does he mention where the Wolves are shooting 3 pointers?

Because it's not enough to simply shoot three pointers. If you're playing the analytics game, the corner 3 is the most efficient shot. That was always noticeable with Kevin Love. He was a good 3 point shooter. But because he was primarily shooting above the elbow, he was taking shots nearly 2 feet longer than those corner 3 specialists. That's the difference between a 37% shooter and a 40% marksman. Over the long haul, it makes a difference.

I don't think anybody wants the Wolves to take 3s just for the sake of taking 3s. That's bad and ugly basketball. But I'd like to see them make a concerted effort to incorporate specific types of shots into the offense.


[Note: The entire league is working to negate the corner 3, so it's to be expected that a very young, inexperienced team will struggle to get those shots somewhat.]

Robson only presents raw 3-point data, abe...no discussion of where the shots are taken. There's no question that the corner three is an easier shot...even Brewer had a nice percentage from there 2 years ago. One of my frustrations with the Wolves' defense is how often they leave an opponent wide open for a corner three, and in comparison, how relatively few times they work a play to set up one of their own players for a corner three.