Minnesota Sports Forum

Once again we lost a competitive game, but why do I feel like we won? It's because almost every night we are showing more and more potential and just enough quality to make the games fun. So many positives tonight which I will get into later, but I hope my fellow Wolves fans don't feel bad about the start to the season. Things actually look pretty bright. Here is the 2 + 1 for tonight:

1) Kevin Martin. I just don't like the guy. He's not clutch, he doesn't make anybody around him better, and he just seems like a dick. With as many talented youngsters as we have, it won't bother me one bit when he goes down for one of his 2 week injuries. And I really hope somebody takes that contract off our hands at the trade deadline. This may sound harsh, but we don't need this guy. Not this year.

2) For the second consecutive game I thought we gave up too many open jump shots. And the problem is Miami kept hitting them. With as lousy as Miami was on the boards, the only reason they won was the consistent shooting. Bosh was outstanding. But we have to get quicker with our rotations and put more pressure on the jump shooter. Maybe #1 above going away would help quite a bit.

Plus 1 - Like I said, many positives tonight. Gorgui amazes me just about every night. Did anybody see his offensive game developing this fast? And how about Shabazz? He can certainly score, and he is a terror on the glass. He is deserving of whatever playing time he gets. Pek and Thad both had decent games. Thad is a better player than I expected when we got him. He doesn't replace Love, but it could be a lot worse. Tonight's official Plus 1 goes to Zach. He has some aggressiveness that I hope Wiggins develops over time. He doesn't look intimidated at all, in fact if you didn't know you wouldn't think he's a rookie by the way he plays. I don't want to say I told you so yet, but he sure looks like a point guard to me. He was more impressive tonight than Mo was, and I applaud the decision to start him. Really looking forward to watching him so more while Ricky recovers.

And that's CoolBreeze's 2 things I didn't like tonight Plus 1.

Good Post Cool, I disagree on Martin, he is what he is, he has had back to back bad shooting games but he also got the game to 4 late. I don't think he is unclutch either he was really clutch in the bulls game and hit a big three against the Nets

Before the season I thought we had almost no chance of making the playoffs. After 4 strong efforts I started to think maybe I was wrong. Now that Ricky is injured it's back to the original goal of the season, which is player development. From that standpoint tonight was a victory. Lavine didn't look lost and had some nice moments. As did Wiggins, although overall he wasn't good. Dieng continues to show game, and Bazz played well.

Still, this is frustrating. Ricky was balling out like a boss. No doubt if he doesn't get hurt we pound Orlando. Then going into Miami, feeling confident, I think we could have won that game. All of a sudden we are 4-2 with two very close losses and feeling pretty good, or at worst 3-3 feeling decent.

But the reality is now most games won't be judged on the final score, but more on what our young guys were able to accomplish.

Martin: he is what he is. A guy who when he is hot can carry you, otherwise he kills you. Just like last season he was hot early on and then cooled off. I think there's a move to be made though: the Bulls are going to contend and can use more perimeter shooting, I say near the trade deadline work a deal to bring in Tony Snell. This deal was rumored before the season. I like his game and 2-way potential if given minutes. Martin on the other hand can take a lesser role with the talented Bulls and provide another veteran that can score. Win for both teams.

I've been trying to figure out if Martin is more of a help or hindrance for over a year now. He's the only player on our squad that can pull up and knock a 3 down in someone's face or create contact out of nothing and get to line. We have NO ONE else that can do that right now. On the other hand, yeah, the other stuff.....

I'm not as bullish on LaVine at PG. I do agree that he plays with poise, but not aggressiveness. He almost always picked up his dribble too early and simply swung it to another perimeter player, rarely creating good opportunities for team mates in half court sets. He also doesn't turn the corner on pick and rolls (which is part of the reason he just swings the ball). He takes the pick, goes wide, and then just passes the ball off to another perimeter guy. Freakin' use your speed and athleticism to turn the corner, get into the paint and create something!

I felt pretty good after last night's game too, cool. We have been treated to six entertaining games this year, and we were within 5 points in all four losses. For the most part this team is playing hard, and continues to be more watchable than previous years...even without Rubio.

After a great start to the season, Martin has been a flop the past two. I think I have finally figured out what Martin is...he's mentally weak and a frontrunner. When things are going well, he plays hard and utilizes his talents on both sides of the ball. But when things are not going well, he seems incapable of sustaining the kind of effort he needs to consistently show. For the most part, he has been the invisible man offensively since Rubio went down, and the old disinterested Kevin on defense. He knows how much better Ricky makes him when they are playing together, and without him on the court, he doesn't appear as interested in the game. If this doesn't change, I hope Flip limits his minutes while Rubio is out. Shabazz, Wiggins, and Brewer are capable of playing either wing position, and although Wiggins also has a tendency to disappear, are all going to play hard when they are out there. Heck, when Martin is going at half speed, I'd even rather see Bud out there...yes, he's been terrible this year, but you can't question his effort, and maybe he will figure it out.

I completely agree that Dieng has been a huge surprise on offense. He doesn't resemble at all the player I watched at Louisville. Jim Peterson can barely contain his joy in marveling at the creative array of shots Dieng has displayed recently. And he's clearly still learning. He is a student of the game, and I look for him to continue to incorporate new wrinkles into his offensive game. Yes, his on-the-ball defense can be frustrating at times, but I think he will improve there too. And meanwhile, his ability to block or alter shots makes him an above average defender, with the potential to be very good. As I continue to monitor CJ McCollum's failures on defense and offense (shooting 31.6% on the year), whether Flip made the decision in turning CJ into Dieng/Shabazz isn't even an interesting discussion anymore.

Speaking of Shabazz, man, can he score quickly...13 points in only 11 minutes last night. He continues to score more than .5 points per minute like last year, and his energy on both ends of the court is always fun to watch. He can be so frustrating when he is out of position on defense or committing an offensive foul on a 1 on 4 fast break, but his effort can never be questioned. And has there ever been a quicker release than the one he displays on his left block hook? It's a shot that is uniquely his.

I mentioned that I still want to give Chase a chance out there, but he is a complete joke right now. Has anyone ever seen a PER of MINUS 9.82? But even Chase's biggest detractors have to admit that he appears much more mobile than last year, and that this is not going to be his norm. I don't see us winning the next three games anyway, so I'm hoping Flip gives Chase a little more opportunity to figure things out.

Speaking of guys that are not popular in this board, I want to give some props to Robbie Hummel. Just like Bud hasn't had a good game this year, Robbie hasn't had a bad one. His stats are underwhelming, but as Jim Peterson says almost every time Robbie is on the court, "Good things happen when he is out there". I don't think it's coincidental that he has not had a negative +/- yet this year. He's always in the right place on offense and defense, moves the ball well and does the little things (and dirty work) that helps the team. It will continue to be difficult to get Robbie minutes, especially when AB comes back, but he doesn't hurt us when he is out there.

It's not as much fun being a Wolves' fan with Ricky on crutches and out for several weeks, but I keep finding things with this club to keep me interested.

Oh, the posters on this board... We (you guys) either love Pekovic and/or Martin or we hate them and pledge that they be shipped out. Give me a break. Two of our best shot-makers, who aren't perfect players by any means, but have been good overall this season. Not to mention the disdain for Martin's contract is silly. $6.5M for him is a bargain right now, and will still look good when the cap rises in the near future even if Martin's production slips a bit. Some of you just don't like his personality and it clouds your objective thinking about him.

Agreed Cam. The same player opinions here change from game to game, but that's what we do. I'm torn on what to do with this Martin/Bud/Brewer group. I guess I'd like to see Lavine getting his minutes at SG, not PG. I think Martin or Brewer could be traded for a backup PG. I know it doesn't hurt to develop Lavine's handles, but I hope the long term plan is for him to be our SG of the future.

Yep Cam its crazy how quick people turn on guys. Look Martin flat out had about 4 quarters of basketball he couldn't hit a shot. He was clearly frustrated he missed that gamewinnner and yes last night he wasn't playing quite as hard as he had been but I don't think his D was that big of an issue. Let's be realistic Martin does benefit a lot from playing with Rubio just as everyone else does. Flip's offense gets guys good shots but Rubio gets guys good looks better than anyone else by far.

I haven't looked at the numbers but to me Dieng's post defense and man defense is better than last year. Oh sure he gets beat easily a couple times but he is winning the battle a lot more often. I think he is figuring it out and actually a lot farther along than I expected.

Q what are reasonable expectations for Lavine? The guy is a 19 year old rookie starting at PG on a young NBA team. You are right he should turn that corner more but to me I think he needs to pick his spots and not make to many mistakes. I continue to be impressed at what he is able to do at the NBA level considering my expectations. I'm not saying long term he is a PG but he looked ok doing that in his 2nd NBA game ever and starting which could mean he will be a terrific asset as a SG with that skill available. Of course he just played against the team with maybe the worst combination of PGs in the league in Miami (all solid guys but which guy is talented enough to be a legit starter) so let's see what happens against some legit starting PGs. I'm interested to see more. Its the upside of Rubio sidelined.

It was interesting that the bench went crazy the time Zach exploded to the basket and created offense. That tells me the team is aware that he needs to get more comfortable with attacking the rim. BUT, it also shows that they know he can do it and are working with him to improve in that area. I don't know, he looks pretty natural and comfortable at the point to me. Like Monster said, he is just a pup let's see what happens.

As for Martin, sure he can get hot and provide the outside shooting we desperately need. But he's just not a winner or leader. Guys like that hurt you as much as they help you. As I said above, I'd like to see our youngsters that have the work ethic and drive play any day over him.

monsterpile wrote:Q what are reasonable expectations for Lavine? The guy is a 19 year old rookie starting at PG on a young NBA team. You are right he should turn that corner more but to me I think he needs to pick his spots and not make to many mistakes. I continue to be impressed at what he is able to do at the NBA level considering my expectations. I'm not saying long term he is a PG but he looked ok doing that in his 2nd NBA game ever and starting which could mean he will be a terrific asset as a SG with that skill available. Of course he just played against the team with maybe the worst combination of PGs in the league in Miami (all solid guys but which guy is talented enough to be a legit starter) so let's see what happens against some legit starting PGs. I'm interested to see more. Its the upside of Rubio sidelined.

Monster, My expectation of LaVine right now is to not be a total screw-up on the floor. And so far on that front he has met my expectations and in fact shows very good poise.

My concern with LaVine-as-PG is that he doesn't do basic things I would expect of a guy that has played PG at a high level all his life, like keeping his dribble alive until he knows exactly what he's going to do with the ball and finding ways to get into the paint. But may be he gets there eventually (?).

The good news is that the experience at PG can help him become a better SG eventually if that ends up being his long-term position. Right now, other than Kevin Martin, we have a bunch of small forwards that are forced to play SG. Flip could really use another SG that can handle the ball and create for others. LaVine may eventually grow into that kind of player.