Minnesota Sports Forum

What a crime. Like holy shit. This is why players leave because you can’t get recognized for greatness in Minnesota. Straight bull shit

He's a bad rebounder. I think it's fair to be honest.

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:47 pm He's a bad rebounder. I think it's fair to be honest.

Rebounding is not defense.

He was in the 100th percentile in matchup difficulty. 99th percentile in points saved at the rim and screen navigation. 94th percentile in points are at the rim vs expected. 3rd in the nba in opponent FG%. Only player in the nba 75 blks and 70 steals in the nba.

kekgeek wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:58 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:47 pm He's a bad rebounder. I think it's fair to be honest.

Rebounding is not defense.

He was in the 100th percentile in matchup difficulty. 99th percentile in points saved at the rim and screen navigation. 94th percentile in points are at the rim vs expected. 3rd in the nba in opponent FG%. Only player in the nba 75 blks and 70 steals in the nba.

Yes, elite in those areas. But defensive rebounding is a huge part of playing defense and he's just plain bad at it. Defending without fouling is also part of becoming a great defender (or at least fouling a little less than he does).

Yes, he probably deserved one of those slots, but I don't think he was a shoe-in for the reasons stated.

I'm glad we have him and he's going to get better. Hopefully this serves as motivation for him!

I am a huge fan of Jaden's defense (his post-game wall-punching decision-making...not so much), but he's also young, and there are a lot of great defenders in this league. It's true that he drew the toughest assignments every night, but most very good defenders do. And his stats frankly fall short of those who made the first two teams. Jaden had a DRtg of 115.1 this season. Let's look at the ratings for the first team defensive bigs:

JJJ: 105.3
Evan Mobley: 108.1
Brook Lopez: 109.4

I love Jaden, but how do you make a case over these three guys? How about second team?

Bam: 110.9
Drayond: 112
Dillon Brooks: 114.4

I despise Brooks, but he has made a name for himself as a defender. Personally I would rank Jaden ahead of Brooks, but I admit I'm a homer. But I'm not so much of a homer to say Jaden being overlooked is more of a travesty than these guys not making it:

Kawhi: 113
Paul George: 113.3
Giannis 107.7
AD: 108
Butler: 111.8
Anunoby: 113.2

Let's enjoy Jaden's growth this season at both ends of the court (but not in the tunnel), and admit that it's too soon to rank him ahead of guys like AD, Giannis and Kawhi. Hopefully, his time will come.

More fun with stats.

Depending on whether we use Kegeek's or FNG's stats... either McDaniels was the BEST defender or a below average one that was actually hurting the Timberwolves on the court.

19 teams... including the Timberwolves... had a DRTG better than 115.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:08 pm More fun with stats.

Depending on whether we use Kegeek's or FNG's stats... either McDaniels was the BEST defender or a below average one that was actually hurting the Timberwolves on the court.

19 teams... including the Timberwolves... had a DRTG better than 115.

Not sure which version of DRtg FNG is pulling, as one is purely a team metric while said player in on the court. Probably the "consensus" best advanced metric for individual defense is Defensive Estimated Plus Minus or D-EPM, but even that needs a big dose of context to make sense of it.

By defensive EPM, he's in the 91st percentile of defenders. So there are around 40 players ahead of him. But when you strip out part-time bench players that only play in shorter bursts, he definitely is on the cusp of being an all-NBA defender. He averaged 2.7 defensive rebounds per game. The Wolves were 26th in defensive rebounding rate. And there is the problem.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:32 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:08 pm More fun with stats.

Depending on whether we use Kegeek's or FNG's stats... either McDaniels was the BEST defender or a below average one that was actually hurting the Timberwolves on the court.

19 teams... including the Timberwolves... had a DRTG better than 115.

Not sure which version of DRtg FNG is pulling, as one is purely a team metric while said player in on the court. Probably the "consensus" best advanced metric for individual defense is Defensive Estimated Plus Minus or D-EPM, but even that needs a big dose of context to make sense of it.

By defensive EPM, he's in the 91st percentile of defenders. So there are around 40 players ahead of him. But when you strip out part-time bench players that only play in shorter bursts, he definitely is on the cusp of being an all-NBA defender. He averaged 2.7 defensive rebounds per game. The Wolves were 26th in defensive rebounding rate. And there is the problem.

Dillon Brooks isn't much of a rebounder either. (2.7)

And if we classify Jaren Jackson as a center... he's not a great rebounder either.

Brooks also is more of a SF/SG whereas McDaniels is more of an SF/PF. Also, Memphis was an average defensive rebounding team, so you can't draw a straight line from his lack of boards to an overall team defense shortcoming. I know that gets into the weeds a bit....It's just not obvious to me who I'd bump off the list in favor of Jaden.

Caruso might be questionable because he plays less than 25 MPG and mostly comes off the bench. But he is really effective when he's in the game. The Bulls had the 5th rated defense in the NBA, which seems implausible on paper when they've got guys like LaVine and DeRozan on the wings (historically poor defenders). Caruso is a big part of shoring it all up and then some.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:04 pm Brooks also is more of a SF/SG whereas McDaniels is more of an SF/PF. Also, Memphis was an average defensive rebounding team, so you can't draw a straight line from his lack of boards to an overall team defense shortcoming. I know that gets into the weeds a bit....It's just not obvious to me who I'd bump off the list in favor of Jaden.

Caruso might be questionable because he plays less than 25 MPG and mostly comes off the bench. But he is really effective when he's in the game. The Bulls had the 5th rated defense in the NBA, which seems implausible on paper when they've got guys like LaVine and DeRozan on the wings (historically poor defenders). Caruso is a big part of shoring it all up and then some.

The Bulls being top 5 in defense is pretty amazing. I think Donovan is a halfway decent coach... or at least slightly underrated.