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The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:01 am
by KG4Ever
I admit I am rather clueless about the new aprons with the new CBA and how they impact what a team is allowed to do. It also bothers me not at all if the owners have to pay luxury taxes, repeater taxes or whatever as they are all complicit in how the roster has been constructed. So can the Wolves just spend away like mad men kind of like the Warriors did or does the new CBA have some sort of hard cap to it?
If Wolves ownership doesn't care about paying taxes (ok they probably do, but for this hypothetical let's say they don't) how much money are they allowed to spend on free agents for this upcoming season as of now (after declining to guarantee Prince's contract)?
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:09 am
by Sundog
Others know the new CBA better than I, but the second apron, which is something like $17.5 million above the lux tax line, acts as a hard cap. Consequences for spending above that line are things like teams can’t aggregate salaries in trades, 1st round picks are pushed to the end of the 1st round, teams lose the MLE, etc. It’s really designed to break very expensive teams up, which is why a few of us keep saying Towns or Gobert have to be traded, and why the Clippers, for example, just dumped Eric Gordon.
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:25 am
by kekgeek
Really good question.
Cap line is about 136
Lux tax line about 165
Lux tax line number 2 about 180
Wolves are at approximately 148
For punishments for 1st tax line, there isn’t a ton. You tax the owners, trades can only be 110% within salary instead of 125%, a small hit to FA pickups but not much. Becoming a repeater tax team really hurts the owners though financially. For example the clippers waived Eric Gordon 21 million contract and saved balmer 110 million financially because of the cap.
Now the 2nd tax line punishments are, can’t use a MLE, can’t add more salary in a trade, can’t be apart of the buyout market, can’t trade picks more than 5 years out, repeater teams 1st round picks move to the end of the 1st round in 7 years, plus the financial tax.
Wolves right now with cutting Prince have about 17 million to away from tax line to fill 4 spots. (You only need to fill 3 spots but then your two ways can only be active in 74 games), I’m assuming clark and miller will be 2 of those spots for about 3 million combined. So 14 million left. The wolves can use the full MLE at about 12.5 million. And they also have Naw as a RFA. So in theory they can pay Naw what they want but they have about 14 million to use between Naw and the MLE to avoid the 1st tax but they can technically go over. Yesterday sort of sucked because they was going to be a MLE trade exception allowing the wolves to trade for Morris or Wright without sending salary back, this is being put in place next year what sucks for the wolves making trading for those PG almost impossible.
Hope this helps
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:40 am
by Coolbreeze44
kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:25 am
Really good question.
Cap line is about 136
Lux tax line about 165
Lux tax line number 2 about 180
Wolves are at approximately 148
For punishments for 1st tax line, there isn’t a ton. You tax the owners, trades can only be 110% within salary instead of 125%, a small hit to FA pickups but not much. Becoming a repeater tax team really hurts the owners though financially. For example the clippers waived Eric Gordon 21 million contract and saved balmer 110 million financially because of the cap.
Now the 2nd tax line punishments are, can’t use a MLE, can’t add more salary in a trade, can’t be apart of the buyout market, can’t trade picks more than 5 years out, repeater teams 1st round picks move to the end of the 1st round in 7 years, plus the financial tax.
Wolves right now with cutting Prince have about 17 million to away from tax line to fill 4 spots. (You only need to fill 3 spots but then your two ways can only be active in 74 games), I’m assuming clark and miller will be 2 of those spots for about 3 million combined. So 14 million left. The wolves can use the full MLE at about 12.5 million. And they also have Naw as a RFA. So in theory they can pay Naw what they want but they have about 14 million to use between Naw and the MLE to avoid the 1st tax but they can technically go over. Yesterday sort of sucked because they was going to be a MLE trade exception allowing the wolves to trade for Morris or Wright without sending salary back, this is being put in place next year what sucks for the wolves making trading for those PG almost impossible.
Hope this helps
Nice, easy to understand synopsis there Kek.
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 12:17 pm
by Lipoli390
kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:25 am
Really good question.
Cap line is about 136
Lux tax line about 165
Lux tax line number 2 about 180
Wolves are at approximately 148
For punishments for 1st tax line, there isn’t a ton. You tax the owners, trades can only be 110% within salary instead of 125%, a small hit to FA pickups but not much. Becoming a repeater tax team really hurts the owners though financially. For example the clippers waived Eric Gordon 21 million contract and saved balmer 110 million financially because of the cap.
Now the 2nd tax line punishments are, can’t use a MLE, can’t add more salary in a trade, can’t be apart of the buyout market, can’t trade picks more than 5 years out, repeater teams 1st round picks move to the end of the 1st round in 7 years, plus the financial tax.
Wolves right now with cutting Prince have about 17 million to away from tax line to fill 4 spots. (You only need to fill 3 spots but then your two ways can only be active in 74 games), I’m assuming clark and miller will be 2 of those spots for about 3 million combined. So 14 million left. The wolves can use the full MLE at about 12.5 million. And they also have Naw as a RFA. So in theory they can pay Naw what they want but they have about 14 million to use between Naw and the MLE to avoid the 1st tax but they can technically go over. Yesterday sort of sucked because they was going to be a MLE trade exception allowing the wolves to trade for Morris or Wright without sending salary back, this is being put in place next year what sucks for the wolves making trading for those PG almost impossible.
Hope this helps
Great summary, Kek. I came up with the same numbers. Sundog already made the point, but I’ll reiterate it regarding the second apron. The issue with the second apron has never been the money - it’s the draconian transactional restrictions which amount to a hard cap. So I just don’t see the Wolves or any other teams (except maybe one or two) willing to go over the second apron next season. I think the Wolves would be willing to pony up the additional money associated with the repeater penalty, but only if they absolutely have to. As your calculations point out, the Wolves have plenty of room under the luxury tax this summer to do what needs to be done to field the best possible run-it-back team next season without exceeding the luxury tax threshold.
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:30 pm
by kekgeek
Correct and just looking next year in 24-25 financials someone of the “big 4” will be gone
Kat: 50
Rudy: 44
Ant:32/42 based on all nba
Mcdaniels: 25
Naz: 14
Moore/Miller/Clark/Minott: 8 combined
MLE + Naw (or other): 14
Looking like 187/197 based on if Ant makes all nba for 11 players. And that is not counting Conley or Slow Mo.
One of Kat or Rudy will need to be gone and it’s dumb but for long term it’s huge if Ant doesn’t make all nba
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:15 pm
by KG4Ever
What if Wolves trade NAZ to a team with capspace and don't take salary back, can they keep Rudy and KAT?
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:39 pm
by WildWolf2813
KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:15 pm
What if Wolves trade NAZ to a team with capspace and don't take salary back, can they keep Rudy and KAT?
Kinda defeats the purpose of re-signing him.
The Rudy /KAT pairing might have to break up because KAT's salary jumps tremendously.
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:58 pm
by KG4Ever
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:39 pm
KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:15 pm
What if Wolves trade NAZ to a team with capspace and don't take salary back, can they keep Rudy and KAT?
Kinda defeats the purpose of re-signing him.
The Rudy /KAT pairing might have to break up because KAT's salary jumps tremendously.
Perhaps, so, but I'm just looking at all options and I really only see two paths that make any sense (if your goal is to win a championship). Path1: Run it back and go for broke and if things work out, keep running it back as long as possible. Path 2: Trade KAT and Rudy, take a step back and reload on Ant and Jaden's timeline. If Path 1 were to succeed (though unlikely), I'm probably wanting to trade Naz. If we trade KAT away, I think our chances to win a title next season or the next, take a big hit and we might as well trade Rudy before he loses all value.
Re: The Aprons -- So what?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:06 pm
by FNG
KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:15 pm
What if Wolves trade NAZ to a team with capspace and don't take salary back, can they keep Rudy and KAT?
Sure, but it will be challenging. And Conley would have to agree to come back on a vet minimum deal (not out of the question for a guy who has made 10s of millions, and has said he wants to raise his family here...especially if he smells a championship).
I believe the cap numbers Kek presents above are for 2023-4...TC's challenge will be 2024-5. I'm going off of Dane Moore's numbers (follow his twitter for terrific cap analysis) and he has the 2024-5 second apron threshold at $199.5 million...lux cap of $182 plus 17.5. If we unload Naz without taking back salary, our payroll could look like this:
KAT: 52
Rudy 44
Ant 32
Jaden 23
SloMo 9
NAW 7
Conley 4
JMac 3
Moore Jr 3
Minott 2
Miller 2
Clark 2
Garza 2
2024 pick 2
No 15th man
That adds up to $188 million, comfortably below the threshold, and even below the threshold if Ant makes $42 million because he made the all-star team.
The biggest question mark for me is if Mike is willing to come back for the vet minimum. If he plays next season anywhere near the level he played last season, TC will want him back. But there may not be much of a market for him at age 37. Besides, TC can pay him a little more if Ant isn't an All-star.
So that's the blueprint for keeping the band together ( minus Naz) through 2024-5. I would be quite optimistic about that roster, especially since it would have Miller as a second year player, Minott and Moore as 3rd players, and 2 rookies in Clark and our pick for next year.