Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2023 11:12 pm**

Best Value Signings

1. Shake Milton 5M plus team option: (SI called it best value signing on day 1, and who am I to disagree with SI, honestly he was my top guy and we got him much cheaper than I expected.
2. Josh Richardson: Minimum: Miami got a steal and with the loss of Vincent and Strus, he'll probably be a key cog for Miami.
3. Jevon Carter: 20M over 3 years: Chicago got my co-favorite with Shake, but they paid a bit more
4. NAW: 4.5M a year and an option: Another TC steal job, especially after the playoff showing he had.
5. Herb Jones: 54M over 4 years.
6. Gabe Vincent: 33M over 3 years.
7. Prince: 4.5M a year.
8. Vucevic: 60M over 3 years.
9. Porzingis: 30M per year.
10. Troy Brown: 4M per year with option.
11. Tre Jones: 10M per year over 2 years.
12. Westbrook: 4M per year (Yeah, I know he was viewed as an albatross when he had a bloated contract and had high expectations, but with reduced expectations he really played well for the Clippers and if plays well he's a steal for 4M and he can be cut and he won't kill you.)

Worst Value Signings:
1. Jerami Grant: 160M over 5 years. Yikes, good luck trading that contract.
2. Fred Vanvleet: 130M over 3 years. FVV may have benefited playing in Toronto's system. I think they may regret this deal.
3: Dillon Brooks 80M over 4 years. A lot for a guy who just played himself off his former team.
4. DLO: 37M over 2 years, second year is a player's option. DLO got one more bag and while it might seem like a bargain compared to his max deal, I think DLO might revert to bad DLO as he is no longer in a contract year and the second year is guaranteed for him. In comparison, Vincent is only getting 11M per year and I think he'll be the more valuable player.
5. Harrison Barnes: $54M over 3 years. Seems like an overpay for a non-star but solid player who is 31.
6. Caris Levert: 32M over 2 years. Injury plagued and a lot for a projected backup.
7. Joe Ingles: $22M over 2 years. Seems a bit steep for his limited skillset and age.
8. Georges Niang: 26M over 3 years. Seems rich for his limited skillset.
9. Desmond Bane: 207 over 5 years. Some of you probably think this should be higher on my list of overpays, but Bane is a helluva player and given that its a five year deal, it will probably look better in years 4 and 5.
10. Dennis Schroeder: 26M over 2 years. A little rich for a guy who should be a backup.
11. Coby White: 40M over 3 years. A little rich for a backup.
12. Rui Hachimura: 51M over 3 years. Seems a bit rich for what he brings to the table and his health concerns.

I'm sure I missed some good and bad contracts and since we are on Day 2, I'm sure there will be more good and bad deals ahead. Let me know if there are any glaring omissions.

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:11 am**

Harrison Barnes deal seems like a fair price for a pretty good 2-way starting player who is a good shooter and also praised for being a leader and excellent teammate. What was he supposed to get?

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:52 am**

My favorite signing was Reeves. I usually think the media overrates lakers players but I actually think Reeves is a stud.

My least favorite is Grant. I like the player but that is a super long and expensive contract and in this CBA is going to be tough to get value out of it

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:12 am**

Monster wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:11 am Harrison Barnes deal seems like a fair price for a pretty good 2-way starting player who is a good shooter and also praised for being a leader and excellent teammate. What was he supposed to get?

Not sure. Probably not way off. But I think with Sac trading away their first rounder to clear cap space, I was expecting a splashier move than retaining HB and that maybe colored my decision a bit. With younger guys Huerter and Keegan looking very impressive on offense, he's probably going to be 5th option on offense and at age 31, I have to wonder if his athleticism will decline.

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:18 am**

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:52 am My favorite signing was Reeves. I usually think the media overrates lakers players but I actually think Reeves is a stud.

My least favorite is Grant. I like the player but that is a super long and expensive contract and in this CBA is going to be tough to get value out of it

I did like the Reaves signing and if I had expanded my value signing list a bit more, I probably would have put him on the list. Like FVV and Naz, Reaves was an undrafted free agent. In this new NBA where shooting is valued more, the talent pool has increased quite a bit and now you see second rounders and undrafted free agents make much bigger impacts than they ever did before. The good news is that this plays into TC's hand of finding talent with late picks and signing decent free agents at bargain prices.

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:58 am**

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:12 am
Monster wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:11 am Harrison Barnes deal seems like a fair price for a pretty good 2-way starting player who is a good shooter and also praised for being a leader and excellent teammate. What was he supposed to get?
Not sure. Probably not way off. But I think with Sac trading away their first rounder to clear cap space, I was expecting a splashier move than retaining HB and that maybe colored my decision a bit. With younger guys Huerter and Keegan looking very impressive on offense, he's probably going to be 5th option on offense and at age 31, I have to wonder if his athleticism will decline.

That trade was a bit weird but that trade probably opened them up for different moves including money to pay that international player.

Looking at what the Kings did Trey Lyles is an interesting case. At one point he looked like a guy that might end up being out of the league and now he has had a couple nice seasons and secured a pretty decent 2 year deal.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:56 am**

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:18 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:52 am My favorite signing was Reeves. I usually think the media overrates lakers players but I actually think Reeves is a stud.

My least favorite is Grant. I like the player but that is a super long and expensive contract and in this CBA is going to be tough to get value out of it
I did like the Reaves signing and if I had expanded my value signing list a bit more, I probably would have put him on the list. Like FVV and Naz, Reaves was an undrafted free agent. In this new NBA where shooting is valued more, the talent pool has increased quite a bit and now you see second rounders and undrafted free agents make much bigger impacts than they ever did before. The good news is that this plays into TC's hand of finding talent with late picks and signing decent free agents at bargain prices.

Nice summary, KG.

I think we're seeing the impact of the new CBA. There seemed to be fewer egregious deals. We're going to still see a lot of HUGE contracts and overpays. But on the other end of the spectrum, we might see more value. When teams are playing some individual players $50 - $60M... how much damage can a $5M deal really do?

Good
- Austin Reaves - 4 years at $58M... that's about 60% what some expected for the guy. Clearly the 3rd best player on what was a top 5 NBA team. And compared to Hachimura's 3 year at $51M deal... looks like a bargain. Heck... Donte Divencenzo got 4 year and $50M... and that's not considered an overpay.

- Eric Gordon - vet minimum. Probably the best "value" of all. His stats hold up well compared to others who got paid up to 5x more... but he brings so much more legit experience.

- Seth Curry - 2 years at $9M. Coming off his worst 3fg season ever... still shot 40.5%. Only now he has Luka and Kyrie feeding him for open looks.

- Josh Richardson - 2 years at $6M. Not bad for a guy who might very well be a rotation guy for another deep playoff run.

- Tre Jones - 2 years at $20M. Not bad for a low-end starter, high-end backup who's still young with promise.

- Draymond Green - 4 years at $100M. A lot of money... but it goes beyond money. He's part of the heart and soul of that organization, and can still play incredible defense. Could be an overpay in 4 years, but incredibly important in the first couple years as the Warriors try to maximize Curry right now. (not all that different than Middleton and Lopez in Milwaukee. Those teams can conceivably win a title with these guys... don't have the flexibility to do so without them.)

- Monte Morris (trade). Traded for a future 2nd round pick. Could be the top backup PG in the league right now. Trade bait who should return more than what the Pistons gave up to get him.

- I can't argue with any of the Wolves FA guys. Probably highest on Milton, even though he was largely out of playoff rotation in Philly. Don't know how much upside there is... but not much to lose if they don't pan out.

- T. Prince in LAL standing around waiting for three pointers seems like a good fit at a solid contract.

- Westbrook. He can still do things very few others can... at a deal that's easy to walk away from.

- Jalen McDaniels. Glimpses/potential of what has his brother looking at a 9-figure extension... at about $4.5M.

---------------------

Bad

- Joe Ingles. Doubled last year's deal after showing he was slower and older. Ummm... ok. He's about to turn 36.

- Max Strus (trade). Getting $9M more than Reaves. Compare their numbers... and explain to me why he's getting paid more...

- Kyle Kuzma. I guess the Wizards have to spend money somehow.

- Rui Hachimura. The guy really made the most of 5 playoff games... because there was no way he was getting $17M+ prior to that.

- Dillon Brooks. His immaturity is largely why he fell out of favor so quickly. Now, he's a veteran presence with the most immature team in the NBA? Meh.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:07 pm**

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:56 am
KG4Ever wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:18 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:52 am My favorite signing was Reeves. I usually think the media overrates lakers players but I actually think Reeves is a stud.

My least favorite is Grant. I like the player but that is a super long and expensive contract and in this CBA is going to be tough to get value out of it
I did like the Reaves signing and if I had expanded my value signing list a bit more, I probably would have put him on the list. Like FVV and Naz, Reaves was an undrafted free agent. In this new NBA where shooting is valued more, the talent pool has increased quite a bit and now you see second rounders and undrafted free agents make much bigger impacts than they ever did before. The good news is that this plays into TC's hand of finding talent with late picks and signing decent free agents at bargain prices.
Nice summary, KG.

I think we're seeing the impact of the new CBA. There seemed to be fewer egregious deals. We're going to still see a lot of HUGE contracts and overpays. But on the other end of the spectrum, we might see more value. When teams are playing some individual players $50 - $60M... how much damage can a $5M deal really do?

Good
- Austin Reaves - 4 years at $58M... that's about 60% what some expected for the guy. Clearly the 3rd best player on what was a top 5 NBA team. And compared to Hachimura's 3 year at $51M deal... looks like a bargain. Heck... Donte Divencenzo got 4 year and $50M... and that's not considered an overpay.

- Eric Gordon - vet minimum. Probably the best "value" of all. His stats hold up well compared to others who got paid up to 5x more... but he brings so much more legit experience.

- Seth Curry - 2 years at $9M. Coming off his worst 3fg season ever... still shot 40.5%. Only now he has Luka and Kyrie feeding him for open looks.

- Josh Richardson - 2 years at $6M. Not bad for a guy who might very well be a rotation guy for another deep playoff run.

- Tre Jones - 2 years at $20M. Not bad for a low-end starter, high-end backup who's still young with promise.

- Draymond Green - 4 years at $100M. A lot of money... but it goes beyond money. He's part of the heart and soul of that organization, and can still play incredible defense. Could be an overpay in 4 years, but incredibly important in the first couple years as the Warriors try to maximize Curry right now. (not all that different than Middleton and Lopez in Milwaukee. Those teams can conceivably win a title with these guys... don't have the flexibility to do so without them.)

- Monte Morris (trade). Traded for a future 2nd round pick. Could be the top backup PG in the league right now. Trade bait who should return more than what the Pistons gave up to get him.

- I can't argue with any of the Wolves FA guys. Probably highest on Milton, even though he was largely out of playoff rotation in Philly. Don't know how much upside there is... but not much to lose if they don't pan out.

- T. Prince in LAL standing around waiting for three pointers seems like a good fit at a solid contract.

- Westbrook. He can still do things very few others can... at a deal that's easy to walk away from.

- Jalen McDaniels. Glimpses/potential of what has his brother looking at a 9-figure extension... at about $4.5M.

---------------------

Bad

- Joe Ingles. Doubled last year's deal after showing he was slower and older. Ummm... ok. He's about to turn 36.

- Max Strus (trade). Getting $9M more than Reaves. Compare their numbers... and explain to me why he's getting paid more...

- Kyle Kuzma. I guess the Wizards have to spend money somehow.

- Rui Hachimura. The guy really made the most of 5 playoff games... because there was no way he was getting $17M+ prior to that.

- Dillon Brooks. His immaturity is largely why he fell out of favor so quickly. Now, he's a veteran presence with the most immature team in the NBA? Meh.

Yeah, the Dillon Brooks one is really puzzling. And unlike Rui, he has had two years of miserable playoff performances. In fact, he wasn't all that good during the regular season either. If anything, I thought he'd end up getting a really cheap deal and perhaps even be a bargain for someone.

I thought Bruce Brown getting $45M on a 2-year deal from the Pacers was a little extreme. That to me is an overpay.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:57 pm**

Doesn't NAZ look like a steal right now?

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:10 pm**

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:57 pm Doesn't NAZ look like a steal right now?

Not necessarily.

Unless we're only comparing him to Rui Hachimura, Dillon Brooks and Max Strus...

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