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Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:41 pm
by KiwiMatt
I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the Wolves this season, not solely based on the results, but mainly the culture TC, Finch and Co are building.
However, to me, there is something that is starting to stand out more and more. And that is the questionable fit of KAT with this current roster and moving forward.
Yes he is a vital cog offensively, especially with his ability to stretch the floor and drive to the hoop. He has also made strides defensively, especially considering he has been asked to defend the 4 quite often. But I question if it's all worth 50 mil of cap space next season. Then 53, 57 and 61 million of cap space the following years.
The other thing is this franchise has a history of 'selling low' and 'buying high'. There is no better time to potentially trade KAT then this off season. He's is coming off an All Star season, being a significant contributor to a high seed team, shooting 45% from 3 and has made improvements defensively.
We should be able to trade him for a combination of a starting caliber player, high upside players and multiple decent draft picks whilst also clearing cap space.
Thoughts?
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:33 pm
by Lipoli390
Trading KAT after this season would be a bad idea for at least three reasons:
1. He’s one of only two elite offensive players on a somewhat offensively challenged Wolves team. This isn’t a team that can afford to take even a half step backwards offensively and remain a title contender. The fact that KAT has become a good (not just passable) defender is a tremendous bonus.
2. Getting comparable value in return for KAT right now would be difficult now when he’s on the front end of a super-max deal and the Wolves are on the threshold of exceeding the second apron.
3. KAT’s super max salary next season will make it very difficult to match salaries.
The time to trade KAT was the summer before last when KAT was the best player on a 46-win team and a year away from the beginning of a super max deal. Last season was the next best opportunity with a year left before his supermax deal. It would have been much easier last summer to match salaries.
The ship on trading KAT has sailed. And so has the trade Rudy ship. TC hitched the team’s wagon to these two-bigs and there’s no reasonable way to unhitch the wagon at this point. And I’m fine with that. We’re going to end up a top three team this season and have a chance of making the NBA finals. No matter what happens this season, the organization will have to bring the same core back as a practical matter.
If this team doesn’t advance in the playoffs it won’t be because of KAT or Rudy. Instead, it will be because Ant and Jaden aren’t yet where they need to be and because we lack another elite bench scorer in addition to Naz.
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:35 pm
by Carlos Danger
Short answer...it depends on the day - lol.
There are certainly days/games where I want to move on from him for the reasons you laid out. But, stepping back...what if we go on a long playoff run this year? Would we all be ok breaking up the band after it was successful? Some might, but I think many would want to run it back.
And the other thing will always be the return. I've always been of the opinion that ANY player should be made available for the right price. Who the heck would have thought a 30 year old Rudy Gobert would net 3 rotational players, 5 first round draft picks three of which are unprotected and a fourth only top 5 protected. PLUS a right to swap picks. What a haul!
Now, so far - I'm not complaining about the results of that trade based on how this year's team is doing. But my point is if any team is willing to throw the moon at us for KAT, Edwards or anyone I think it warrants consideration. Obviously there are a lot of variables to think about including the second apron, the team's second window etc. But you should always listen...
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:59 pm
by thedoper
It depends on the return. For draft assets and up and coming talent (I do trust Connelly's judgement) than yes. For another high priced borderline star with warts at a different position then no.
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:32 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:33 pm
Trading KAT after this season would be a bad idea for at least three reasons:
1. He’s one of only two elite offensive players on a somewhat offensively challenged Wolves team. This isn’t a team that can afford to take even a half step backwards offensively and remain a title contender. The fact that KAT has become a good (not just passable) defender is a tremendous bonus.
2. Getting comparable value in return for KAT right now would be difficult now when he’s on the front end of a super-max deal and the Wolves are on the threshold of exceeding the second apron.
3. KAT’s super max salary next season will make it very difficult to match salaries.
The time to trade KAT was the summer before last when KAT was the best player on a 46-win team and a year away from the beginning of a super max deal. Last season was the next best opportunity with a year left before his supermax deal. It would have been much easier last summer to match salaries.
The ship on trading KAT has sailed. And so has the trade Rudy ship. TC hitched the team’s wagon to these two-bigs and there’s no reasonable way to unhitch the wagon at this point. And I’m fine with that. We’re going to end up a top three team this season and have a chance of making the NBA finals. No matter what happens this season, the organization will have to bring the same core back as a practical matter.
If this team doesn’t advance in the playoffs it won’t be because of KAT or Rudy. Instead, it will be because Ant and Jaden aren’t yet where they need to be and because we lack another elite bench scorer in addition to Naz.
Lip, when I advocated for trading KAT two years ago, you argued that he would still have the same value at this time. I countered that his value was at it's zenith and would only come down.
I'm not sure if I want to trade him now, but his complaining and mental weaknesses are still holding us back today. I don't believe he has improved his complaining, in fact it may even be worse.
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:49 pm
by 60WinTim
Here is an interesting twist as far as the financials go...
If KAT is traded around the draft the salary matching would use his 36 mil, and a team could take on his contract by sending out as little as 29 mil. So KAT's 49 mil contract for next season would be reduced to 29 mil of incoming player(s). That is a potential 20 mil savings on next year's salaries.
But if KAT is traded in the off-season the salary matching would use his 49 mil, and a team could take on his contract by sending out as little as 39 mil. This means the best we can achieve is a potential 10 mil of savings on next year's salaries.
It's a tough decision whether to move on from KAT, and a lot depends on how much luxury tax the new owners are willing to pay. If the decision is trade KAT, the best time is around the draft.
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:50 pm
by Duke13
Addition by subtraction. Lip’s fascination with the 46 win team of two years ago is alarming. His salary would be difficult to trade, super high value isn’t likely. I would think Finch has to absolutely hate coaching him and I would think his presence sucks the life out of the locker room. Kat stagnates offense most nights. Everyone in the league can shoot now. He’s not the unicorn he thinks he is.
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:09 pm
by Wolvesfan21
Duke13 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:50 pm
Addition by subtraction. Lip’s fascination with the 46 win team of two years ago is alarming. His salary would be difficult to trade, super high value isn’t likely. I would think Finch has to absolutely hate coaching him and I would think his presence sucks the life out of the locker room. Kat stagnates offense most nights. Everyone in the league can shoot now. He’s not the unicorn he thinks he is.
They were likable in a way they over achieved a bit and generally played hard (Bev, Vando, etc). I didn't see a path with "generally" staying with that roster though that would quickly lead us to where we are now as a contending team. I think the consensus was we would be even a bit worse prior to the Rudy trade that next season. The West was getting bolstered that offseason with many teams making moves. We felt like on a trajectory to middle ground and likely that is it for the next 3-4 years (barring a different big move). Our picks would be late lottery or in the early 20's. I had no issue at all with dumping those picks for Gobert. You just cannot really count on any mid later first turning out.
Winning in the NBA is built on stars and Rudy is a star on defense. Sure he was a rare later pick that worked out, but it is very rare. I did some basic math and like 10% of late firsts even turn out to be rotation guys. You really need top 5 picks in the draft if not top picks overall (we as Wolves fans should know that). That is just the nature of the difficulty of finding stars and difference makers.
As far as trading KAT. I think it's not a viable topic right now. Let's see how this season and playoffs go. A first round exit type of thing could make paying 2nd Apron money not fun for the owners. A deep run with the team playing well could be the difference going forward (maybe even finals *crosses fingers*).
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:11 pm
by Wolvesfan21
oops double post.
Re: Is it time to move on from KAT?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:07 pm
by kekgeek
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:32 pm
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:33 pm
Trading KAT after this season would be a bad idea for at least three reasons:
1. He’s one of only two elite offensive players on a somewhat offensively challenged Wolves team. This isn’t a team that can afford to take even a half step backwards offensively and remain a title contender. The fact that KAT has become a good (not just passable) defender is a tremendous bonus.
2. Getting comparable value in return for KAT right now would be difficult now when he’s on the front end of a super-max deal and the Wolves are on the threshold of exceeding the second apron.
3. KAT’s super max salary next season will make it very difficult to match salaries.
The time to trade KAT was the summer before last when KAT was the best player on a 46-win team and a year away from the beginning of a super max deal. Last season was the next best opportunity with a year left before his supermax deal. It would have been much easier last summer to match salaries.
The ship on trading KAT has sailed. And so has the trade Rudy ship. TC hitched the team’s wagon to these two-bigs and there’s no reasonable way to unhitch the wagon at this point. And I’m fine with that. We’re going to end up a top three team this season and have a chance of making the NBA finals. No matter what happens this season, the organization will have to bring the same core back as a practical matter.
If this team doesn’t advance in the playoffs it won’t be because of KAT or Rudy. Instead, it will be because Ant and Jaden aren’t yet where they need to be and because we lack another elite bench scorer in addition to Naz.
Lip, when I advocated for trading KAT two years ago, you argued that he would still have the same value at this time. I countered that his value was at it's zenith and would only come down.
I'm not sure if I want to trade him now, but his complaining and mental weaknesses are still holding us back today. I don't believe he has improved his complaining, in fact it may even be worse.
Techinical fouls this year
Kat: 0
Ant: 10
Technical fouls last year
Kat: 4
Ant: 13
I would say Kat complaining is way down this year.