Minnesota Sports Forum

We just lost the first two games of the Conference Finals against the Mavs and Edwards has struggled offensively. The Mavs defense is obviously focused on him - sort of the way the Pistons targeted MJ. Remember the “Jordan Rules”? He’s still rebounded well and other that last night his passing has been good. He’s also defended well although you can’t really stop a well rested, healthy Kyrie Irving.

All that said, I think it’s really important to remember that Edwards is only 22 years with limited playoff experience playing in his first Conference Finals. The only player his age to advance beyond the Conference finals was Kobe Bryant but note that Kobe was playing with Shaq in his prime and Shaq, not Kobe, was the Lakers’ best player back then. Otherwise, consider the following playoff history of prior young stars - hall of farmers (or future hall of famers):

ISIAH THOMAS
Age 23: 1st round loss
Age 24: Conf semis loss
Age 25: 1st round loss
Age 26: Conf finals loss
Age 27: Finals Loss
Age 28: Championship

MICHAEL JORDAN
Age 22: 1st round loss
Age 23: 1st round loss
Age 24: 1st round loss
Age 25: Conf semis loss
Age 26: Conf finals loss
Age 27 Conf finals loss
Age 28: Championship

DWAYNE WADE
Age 22: Conf semis loss
Age 23: Conf finals loss
Age 24: Championship

STEPH CURRY
Age 25: Conf semis loss
Age 26: 1st round loss
Age 27: Championship

Teams whose best player is 22 years old don’t win championships; they don’t even get as far as the Conference finals. As you can see, it’s always a progression. A young star develops individually as the team around him develops and grows together. At age 22, Ant is probably at least two years, maybe 3 or 4, from being ready to lead his team to the Conference Finals and possibly a championship. And make no mistake about it, this team will NOT make the NBA finals, much less win a championship, with KAT, Rudy, Naz or Jaden as the Wolves best player. As we’ve known for some time, this is Ant’s team and KAT will never be the best player on a championship contender. Sadly KAT’s looking like he can’t be the 2nd best player on a championship contender.

One of my main arguments against the Rudy trade was that it did not align with the trajectory of Ant. What we’re seeing against Dallas (and got glimpses of against Denver) is that I was right in that respect. The Rudy trade failed to reflect Ant’s age relative to Rudy’s and overvalued KAT’s abilities. OKC performed just as well if not better than the Wolves against Dallas even though they are much younger than the Wolves overall. KAT and Rudy aren’t going to get better as their already huge salaries continue to rise and put this franchise over the 2nd apron cliff.

What we’re seeing is that the Conference Finals are another level of basketball in the NBA. It’s a level that leaves no weaknesses unexposed. We’re seeing those weaknesses. We see KAT’s low IQ and mental weakness exposed. We see Rudy’s bad hands, physical weakness and mental passivity exposed. And we see Ant’s youth exposed (Jaden’s too).

Looking ahead, I’d feel much better if we had Dereck Lively instead of Gobert as our center. I think Lively’s already better than Rudy. More importantly Dereck’s age aligns with Ant, Jaden and Naz and no doubt he’ll continue to get much better and develop with the other guys as a team without hitting a payroll threshold that forces management to take the team apart.

This has been a terrific season. The Gobert trade gave us short term pleasure and if the Wolves turn this series around it may pay off with a championship or at least a Finals appearance this season. But I see a Wolves team that has hit its ceiling and I don’t see this team going any further than Ant can take them. Ultimately, Ant needs to improve but he also needs a genuine two-way number 2 or 1B partner to grow and develop alongside him. Curry had Thompson. MJ had Pippen. Stockton had Malone. Isiah Thomas had Dumars. Bird had McHale. Magic Johnson had Worthy. Wade had Shaq. Shaq had Kobe. The list goes on. That list for the Wolves will never include KAT. It might ultimately include Jaden or Naz but the jury is out on that for now.

I’m still not sure in my own mind whether the Wolves should bring this team back as is next season in spite of the 2nd apron. As we know, cap rules won’t allow the Wolves to make any meaningful tweaks to the roster if they bring it back. Maybe Ant and Jaden can improve enough to break through the ceiling next season with KAT and Rudy. It might be worth a shot. On the other hand, perhaps it’s time to cash out on the Rudy experiment and do what we should have done to begin with: Focus entirely on building for the long term around Edwards, Jaden and Naz. It’s not an easy choice.

If Luka is going to be as good a player as he looks you can add him to that list as well
20 years old first round exit
21 years old first round exit
22 years old WCF where he shot horribly losing in 5 games
23 and 24 didn't even make the playoffs
25 WCF, to be determined but looks unstoppable in the clutch.

I think the answer to this is to be determined. This experience for Ant is great and not something we would have seen had we stayed the course. It also gave us a deep playoff run for Kat to see how played, and he was fantastic defending the best player in the world Jokic and one of the top 10 players of all time at the tail end of his career in Durant (with Kat coming off of a major surgery). How this plays out as far as who we keep around the next few years, and who we eventually trade, sign, draft etc will all play into if the Rudy trade was ultimately worth it. If we run it back and are eliminated in the first round next year, and Ant never wins a title here, it probably wasn't worth it. If we win a title this year or another year either with the pieces we have or by trading players we have it was worth it. Dallas for some reason let Brunson go after their WCF and traded for Porzingis and suffered from it. Porzingis has been fantastic for Boston in the right system. Dallas traded for Kyrie and again missed the playoffs, but a couple of great trades at this deadline have really heated them up at the right time and completed their team. Even if we lose to Dallas, we are not far off from being a championship team. The biggest worry is probably Conley. At 36, you never know when the wheels are just going to fall off of him.

Ant will be at the crossroads this summer, he needs to make a decision. Does he want to take his conditioning seriously to maximize what he can become? Or does he want to continue eating like garbage while playing video games until 3:00 in the morning every night?

BloopOracle wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 11:21 am Ant will be at the crossroads this summer, he needs to make a decision. Does he want to take his conditioning seriously to maximize what he can become? Or does he want to continue eating like garbage while playing video games until 3:00 in the morning every night?

Do we know Ant still eats as poorly as he did last season? I haven't heard him talk about Popeyes or McDonald's since last year. His body is a lot stronger and more defined this season. Is he playing video games until 3am? I know he plays with Conley and I'm guessing he plays with Kat and others. I'd rather Ant play video games than hit the strip clubs til 5am like Harden.

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 11:34 am

BloopOracle wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 11:21 am Ant will be at the crossroads this summer, he needs to make a decision. Does he want to take his conditioning seriously to maximize what he can become? Or does he want to continue eating like garbage while playing video games until 3:00 in the morning every night?

Do we know Ant still eats as poorly as he did last season? I haven't heard him talk about Popeyes or McDonald's since last year. His body is a lot stronger and more defined this season. Is he playing video games until 3am? I know he plays with Conley and I'm guessing he plays with Kat and others. I'd rather Ant play video games than hit the strip clubs til 5am like Harden.

Could be his girl but I doubt it, bit of a running joke on Instagram at this point. Every other time she posts a story or clip involving him there are honey buns and those hot fries he gushed about in that interview laying somewhere.

The proof is in the way he's just dragging himself through these games. He gives short bursts of energy and then has to back off or settle for long range shots. He's not making a difference on defense like we are accustomed to seeing. I'll give him credit for trying, but the body just isn't responding in the way it's accustomed to.

Ant being in the conference finals at 22 is an amazing part of his development. It would not have been possible without Rudy and Conley on this team, both for their play and leadership. I cant wait what the future brings. Him and Jaden both have a ways to go, but I love that their eyes are wide open about just how much it takes to be successful in the post season.

We’ve shown Kat 9 years of patience always hoping this is the year he’ll turn the corner.
So when we finally have a potential superstar at a premium position that is only 22 I think we need to pump the brakes and allow him to take his lumps while gaining invaluable playoff experience. He’s charismatic, shown that he’s not afraid of the spotlight ( Phoenix series), plays elite level defense and shows flashes of Jordan like potential. And maybe most importantly his teammates respect him and follow his lead.
Roy, Rose and Morant all appeared to have that “it”factor but injuries denied them. We have our own version and he’s healthy, confident, and has a jumper and reliable three point shot that those guys never had.

“I think Lively’s already better than Rudy.”

Come on, man

Sundog wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 11:14 am “I think Lively’s already better than Rudy.”

Come on, man

After the draft Lip ripped the mavs for the trade that brought Lively to the Mavs. He was adamant that they passed on an excellent player in Carson Wallace. Dallas moved on from a very expensive player in Bertans to move down a couple picks for a player that fit exactly their need in Lively. Maybe in a year or 2 or 3 years maybe Lip will be right and Wallace will turn into an all-star.

I wish I had participated in the board more the past few months but it's also time to allow ourselves some times to sit back and just enjoy this time as a wolves fan. If you want the Wolves to add young talent they have that ability this draft cycle with the picks they have. The Wolves roster this season has over half of it with guys 25 or younger.

Also the Dallas series isn't over yet.