Minnesota Sports Forum

I just finished listening to the Locked on Wolves podcast, and while Ben Beecken was quite complimentary of SGA, he also was outraged at the amount of flopping he did during last night's game. He also commented on the disparity of free throw attempts between the respective high scorers, and blamed a lot of it on SGA's acting. It got me thinking...why is there so much disdain for players who try to influence the referees with some acting? Further, wouldn't some of our players be more productive if they copied what SGA does?

In every other sport I can think of, pretending something has happened that hasn't is a regular (and often admired) part of the game. If a pitcher delivers a pitch out of the strike zone, the catchers who are most admired for "framing" quickly move their glove into the strike zone to try to convince the umpire the pitch was actually a strike. Would we rather the catcher not do this because it is dishonest? Heck, some catchers with batting averages in the low 200s have carved out long careers because of their ability to "frame"...i.e. cheat. Speaking from a personal perspective, I have been an outfielder for decades. If I trap a line drive in front of me but it's a close call, the first thing I do is raise my glove in the air signaling to the ump that I actually caught it. Same with wide receivers in football...when they have clearly caught a ball off the ground and they know it, they give the "catch" signal to the refs to try to convince them it didn't hit the ground. Cheaters?

So why do we treat NBA floppers differently than baseball and football players, when they are really only doing the same thing...trying to convince the referees that they have been fouled. Ant repeatedly complains to the refs when he thinks he has been fouled, and it doesn't seem to do him much good...in fact, I would argue that it actually makes it less likely that a ref will award him a foul later, because refs don't like to be shown up. It seems to me that Ant could learn a lot from SGA about flopping. SGA and Ant are both remarkably talented and athletic basketball players who love to attack the rim, but SGA averages 7.9 free throw attempts per game this season, and Ant only 3.8. What do we attribute that to? Hometown fans well often attribute it to referee bias, especially with big market players, but SGA plays in one of the smallest markets in the Association. I think the disparity is mostly because SGA is better at convincing refs that he has been fouled...yes, flopping. You know, like framing.

Ant is as athletic as SGA and a better long-range shooter. I think if he changed his focus to convincing the referees that he has been fouled rather than complaining that a foul hasn't been called, a 25 PPG scorer could instantly become closer to a 30 PPG scorer...he's that good. And here's my pledge: if Ant learns to flop like SGA and starts shooting 8-10 free throws per game, I promise not to be outraged by him!

Thoughts?

I think they should develop more flopping in the GLeague and College game and teams should prioritize it in the draft.

I think the only comparable one is the pitch framing. Pitch framing and flopping get rewarded far too much, probably flopping takes the cake. I don't think anyone thinks baseball umps are doing a bang up job or they wouldn't be developing robot umps.

It's no wonder the league's ratings are down when modern superstars like SGA and Wemby embellish flopping. It should be properly cracked down on and as fans we should not encourage our own team to do it.

I remember that terrible flop Curry did on McDaniels a few games back. Literally changed his direction, launched himself into McDaniels and flopped. Got awarded the foul and no fines were handed out. That's the problem. Punish the players, no matter who it is.

We are 27th in the league in free throw attempts with 19.7 per game. The last 3 games we are dead last at 15.7 per game. For a team that plays the way we do it doesn't make sense. Last night was a perfect example of it. They were allowed to play physical defence, but we weren't. In fact a lot of those foul calls against us weren't fouls or very borderline. OKC shot twice as many free throws as us.

I firmly side with Kiwi on this one! It's really in the NBA's best interest to crack down on the shenanigans, as it takes away from the overall quality of the game. I place the blame more on the NBA and refs than the players, who of course are going to try to get every advantage they can.

What is especially galling is how suddenly during the playoffs you see this behavior rewarded less by officials. Why can players foul-bait in the regular season, yet in the playoffs suddenly the refs prove perfectly capable of not falling for it!? SGA, for example, shot two less FTAs per game in last year's playoffs (on a per minute basis) because the refs were less likely to call fouls when he flopped.

And with SGA, it's not just the flopping/falling down. He uses his off arm to either push off or ward off defenders. He damn near commits an offensive foul nearly every time he drives. He's quick enough as it is that it's difficult to guard him, but then if you do stay in front, he'll push off with his off arm to create space. It's probably not a foul every time, but he needs to be called on it more often and I NEVER see it called on him. It's literally unfair when you combine his raw skill level with the push offs and flopping.

Ant will get more fouls called in his favor when he has the space to drive more often against a defense in motion versus a wall of bodies set in the paint.

Q, I don't disagree that the real culprits here are the referees, not the players. But knowing that they are not likely to crack down, at least not right now, I admire players who will do anything he can (short of causing bodily harm...I'm looking at you, Draymond) to help his team win. Just like a catcher is going to help his pitcher by trying to turn balls into strikes. So that's why I'm confused as to why anyone would criticize SGA for doing what the referees allow him to do. He's not going to average 30+ points a game if he stops flopping, and hos 30+ points a game are a big reason why OkC might be the best team in the Association. I would like Ant to be more like SGA and hunt for fouls...another 5-6 free throws per game for him could amount to another 5-6 wins for his team.

And I agree that it's not only flopping...it's the push offs. But again, I'm not blaming the player...I'm blaming the refs.

My take on this has been clear for multiple years now...

Put a coach on staff (or if there is already one... find a MUCH better one) whose sole purpose is to teach Anthony Edwards how to grift for foul calls.

We can talk about lineup combinations. Iso ball. Three pointers. Et al. That's just a bunch of complicated stuff that might help around the margins.

Adding +/-5 points per game... and making your star player happier... sure seems like a winning strategy.

The fact we have to have these conversations illustrates how much the product is suffering. If I didn't have a team that I care a lot about, I'd never watch an NBA game.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 9:34 pm The fact we have to have these conversations illustrates how much the product is suffering. If I didn't have a team that I care a lot about, I'd never watch an NBA game.

I agree completely, Cool!

As we're seeing with Wembanyama... this issue is going to be around for awhile. He's becoming an egregious flopper defensively... it's only a matter of time until he figures out how to do it on offense.

Prettier product or not... it's about winning. Players that can find ways to get "free" points from the line have a distinct advantage over those who are averaging only 2.5 FTA even though they're averaging 18 FGA per game over an entire month.

I don't think it's very prevalent in football. The WR's I think don't really know if it hit the ground or if their feet were in, more of an instant reaction too in a split second, like hey the balls in my hands! I don't see that as annoying as a flop. That is anti-tough, anti-aggressive, just weak sauce.

Compared to the NBA when dudes on both sides cry on every other call, pretty much every call and flop on a bunch. It's still not as ridiculous as soccer. Dudes roll on the ground crying like every time. So I guess at least the NBA is at least a little, make that a lot more pleasing to watch. I get arguing calls, but if I were a player I would limit my crying.