Kekgeek grades G4 vs Cavs

[kekgeek]

Ball: C-
Ant: A- (I hated how he played tonight)
Jaden: B
Kuminga: B-
Rudy: C+
Ayo: B
TSJ: A
Beringer: A
Lyles: C+
Bones: D+

[Q-is-here]

Kek, If you are grading relative to expectations I might just lower Ball down a notch to D+. 7 turnovers, 11 points on 11 shots, and the worst +/- among the starters. He just wasn't connecting with guys and it wasn't just Rudy flubbing his passes.

Ant's game tonight certainly wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but it's hard to argue with 47 points on 33 shots. We handily won the minutes he played, but yeah, he came up short in the end with what was a really good look from 3 to possibly send the game to a second OT. A- or B+ seems about right.

Joan was fantastic. I know we lost his minutes because it was when Cleveland started making all their 3s, but 12 points on 6-6 shooting, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks in only 17 minutes is outstanding production.

[kekgeek]

Kek, If you are grading relative to expectations I might just lower Ball down a notch to D+. 7 turnovers, 11 points on 11 shots, and the worst +/- among the starters. He just wasn't connecting with guys and it wasn't just Rudy flubbing his passes.

Ant's game tonight certainly wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but it's hard to argue with 47 points on 33 shots. We handily won the minutes he played, but yeah, he came up short in the end with what was a really good look from 3 to possibly send the game to a second OT. A- or B+ seems about right.

Joan was fantastic. I know we lost his minutes because it was when Cleveland started making all their 3s, but 12 points on 6-6 shooting, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks in only 17 minutes is outstanding production.

Ya I don’t disagree with you.

They lost because of missed FTs
A terrible ball game
Rudy hands were terrible (I will say he was a very good defensively and on the glass)
Lost a shooting variance game. Mobley 2nd most 3s in his career and then Thomas hitting 4 in his debut.


On to the next one

[Q-is-here]

Kek, If you are grading relative to expectations I might just lower Ball down a notch to D+. 7 turnovers, 11 points on 11 shots, and the worst +/- among the starters. He just wasn't connecting with guys and it wasn't just Rudy flubbing his passes.

Ant's game tonight certainly wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but it's hard to argue with 47 points on 33 shots. We handily won the minutes he played, but yeah, he came up short in the end with what was a really good look from 3 to possibly send the game to a second OT. A- or B+ seems about right.

Joan was fantastic. I know we lost his minutes because it was when Cleveland started making all their 3s, but 12 points on 6-6 shooting, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks in only 17 minutes is outstanding production.

Ya I don’t disagree with you.

They lost because of missed FTs
A terrible ball game
Rudy hands were terrible (I will say he was a very good defensively and on the glass)
Lost a shooting variance game. Mobley 2nd most 3s in his career and then Thomas hitting 4 in his debut.


On to the next one

They shot it well from 3, but not as ridiculous (40%) as I thought at first. I guess what was ridiculous was the guys making them, as you mentioned. Mobley and the rookie going a combined 8-10, ugh!

It continues to amaze me how confident and secure Rudy's hands are pulling down defensive rebounds, some of which come at him fast or at awkward angles, but then he is a complete mess on the other end. We know this is just who he is though - it will only stay the same or get worse as he ages.

[WildWolf2813]

F for Evans, not because of what he did or didn't do tonight, but because he will NEVER have a game like Meleek Thomas did tonight until he goes to Europe.

[FNG]

I don't know, guys...I think this loss might convince me that this team is for real more than the three wins. Playing an OT game on the back end of a BTB on a very good Eastern team's court, and we could have (should have?) beaten them. And we did it on a night where LaMelo, as terrific as he has been the first 3 games, was really bad...I agree with Q that he deserved a D+.

I guess the reason I'm not feeling so bad after this loss is I'm seeing huge growth from Joan...he finally seems to be getting the art of blocking out, and his instincts on the offensive boards continue to be terrific. And while I agree with some of of you that we have to get Ant off the ball, I'm also seeing signs of maturing in him. Kek, I can sense your frustration with some things Ant did tonight, but I'm seeing a guy playing far better at both ends than he has in past years.

We're 3-1 against some good teams. LaMelo will bounce back after this poor game, and Rudy (let's not ignore the fact that he had TWENTY rebounds!) won't fumble the ball as much. Even after a loss, I'm thinking my wins prediction is too low. This is a really good team.

[kekgeek]

I don't know, guys...I think this loss might convince me that this team is for real more than the three wins. Playing an OT game on the back end of a BTB on a very good Eastern team's court, and we could have (should have?) beaten them. And we did it on a night where LaMelo, as terrific as he has been the first 3 games, was really bad...I agree with Q that he deserved a D+.

I guess the reason I'm not feeling so bad after this loss is I'm seeing huge growth from Joan...he finally seems to be getting the art of blocking out, and his instincts on the offensive boards continue to be terrific. And while I agree with some of of you that we have to get Ant off the ball, I'm also seeing signs of maturing in him. Kek, I can sense your frustration with some things Ant did tonight, but I'm seeing a guy playing far better at both ends than he has in past years.

We're 3-1 against some good teams. LaMelo will bounce back after this poor game, and Rudy (let's not ignore the fact that he had TWENTY rebounds!) won't fumble the ball as much. Even after a loss, I'm thinking my wins prediction is too low. This is a really good team.

I mostly agree with everything you said.

It’s just a something we can’t quantify. Do those 0 pass possessions that go in or not affect the other players rhythms on both ends of the court. Or is it some mythical confirmation bias that my brain does. Similar to how it’s a complete myth if a team doesn’t get a 2 point conversion in football that it kills momentum.

I thought was Ant was good, I did give him an A- I do think he is putting good effort in for the most part on defense, even though I thought his effort on D on the harden trying the game in regulation was pathetic. I just wish early in the season Ant trusted his teammates more in situations. Similar to why I have no issue with Finch playing the starters in the clutch because I want them to get those reps even if some bench players played better.

[FNG]

I don't know, guys...I think this loss might convince me that this team is for real more than the three wins. Playing an OT game on the back end of a BTB on a very good Eastern team's court, and we could have (should have?) beaten them. And we did it on a night where LaMelo, as terrific as he has been the first 3 games, was really bad...I agree with Q that he deserved a D+.

I guess the reason I'm not feeling so bad after this loss is I'm seeing huge growth from Joan...he finally seems to be getting the art of blocking out, and his instincts on the offensive boards continue to be terrific. And while I agree with some of of you that we have to get Ant off the ball, I'm also seeing signs of maturing in him. Kek, I can sense your frustration with some things Ant did tonight, but I'm seeing a guy playing far better at both ends than he has in past years.

We're 3-1 against some good teams. LaMelo will bounce back after this poor game, and Rudy (let's not ignore the fact that he had TWENTY rebounds!) won't fumble the ball as much. Even after a loss, I'm thinking my wins prediction is too low. This is a really good team.

I mostly agree with everything you said.

It’s just a something we can’t quantify. Do those 0 pass possessions that go in or not affect the other players rhythms on both ends of the court. Or is it some mythical confirmation bias that my brain does. Similar to how it’s a complete myth if a team doesn’t get a 2 point conversion in football that it kills momentum.

I thought was Ant was good, I did give him an A- I do think he is putting good effort in for the most part on defense, even though I thought his effort on D on the harden trying the game in regulation was pathetic. I just wish early in the season Ant trusted his teammates more in situations. Similar to why I have no issue with Finch playing the starters in the clutch because I want them to get those reps even if some bench players played better.

Some good psychological points, kek, and a very fair point about the impact a 0 pass possession might have on teammates...it's clearly something we can't quantify, but it very well may be a negative factor. It's noteworthy that we may be unhappy with some Ant-centric possessions, but still award him a high grade for his overall performance. I've been one of the biggest Ant detractors on this board, but I really think we're beginning to see what a mature developed Ant may look like, and I like what I am seeing...for the first time in his career I see the makings of a top 5 2-way player. But yes, he has some talented players next to him, and the more he trusts them in clutch situations, the better this team is going to be.

I get ripped sometimes here for looking too much at plus/minus stats, but tonight I agree with your A grade for TJ even though he was a team-worst -13. I'm getting more and more comfortable with his game and really can't explain why we got outscored by so much while he was out there.

A real klunker of a game from Ball tonight, but it doesn't change my opinion at all that he is going to make this roster much better.

[Wolvesfan21]

I watched a Spider last night have an Ant for dinner and he liked it.

Can someone tell me our record when Ant reverts to hero ball? Heck just tell me our record when he score 40+ compared to when he doesn't. I can't imagine it's much better and I kind of think it could be worse. You would think oh Ant scored 40, we had to win. He played a great game right? But I don't think those two stats are really linked.

Now does he revert to hero ball because others are struggling, or does he do it and cause others to somewhat struggle, not touching the ball, getting up any shots for a long time, playing out of offensive flow a lot, etc...

My feeling is that while I want Ant to score 40+ of course, he needs to do it more in flow of the game to make the team ultimately more effective and win. My pure guess is that we have a worse record when he scores 40+ then when he doesn't.

[FNG]

I watched a Spider last night have an Ant for dinner and he liked it.

Can someone tell me our record when Ant reverts to hero ball? Heck just tell me our record when he score 40+ compared to when he doesn't. I can't imagine it's much better and I kind of think it could be worse. You would think oh Ant scored 40, we had to win. He played a great game right? But I don't think those two stats are really linked.

Now does he revert to hero ball because others are struggling, or does he do it and cause others to somewhat struggle, not touching the ball, getting up any shots for a long time, playing out of offensive flow a lot, etc...

My feeling is that while I want Ant to score 40+ of course, he needs to do it more in flow of the game to make the team ultimately more effective and win. My pure guess is that we have a worse record when he scores 40+ then when he doesn't.

Hahaha...good one, WF! But you know, I actually watched an Ant eat a Spider last night. They were on the court opposite each other much of the night, and Ant was a +11 and Mitchell a -4. Our guy won the minutes they were out there together.

But you're clearly not the only one here who gets frustrated sometimes when Ant goes hero ball. And for the first years of his career (up until last season) it went very bad, because he was one of the worst clutch shooters in the league. And then somehow he completely reversed things and was one of the best, if not the best, clutch shooters in the league last season! But still, your point is well-taken, and I'm sure there is data out there about our record when Ant goes for 40+. Not exactly the same thing, but I remember posting last year how incredible successful we were when Ant had (I think) 5 or more assists. And there can be no question at all that our offense clicks best when Melo is on the ball and Ant is moving and ready to catch and shoot.