OT thread America

[Monster]

Anyone else notice the protesting/riots in France over the vaccines? Does anyone think that will happen here?

It interesting how some people this is a big deal and others a nothing. I am in the camp of thinking everyone should
get the vaccine outside of children at this point, but don't think we should mandate it. In all transparency I have not been following the data, but think you will keep seeing variants and spreading like other virus's moving forward. We likely will have flu look annual shots etc. I just want to see the reaction to be linear to the data and at this point the CDC has basically lost my trust and seems to be crying for continued relevance.

Anyone look at the data? How are death rates doing compared to 2019 or even 2020?

At some point... if people don't want to get the vaccine (even if it puts them at risk)... what can you do? Shutting things down again to try to convince people dead-set against it seems like it's going to create more discord, disgust and distrust.

From what I've read, those dying are largely NOT the ones vaccinated.

Sometimes, you can't save people from themselves. Give one more push/plea effort. Make it earnest. And if people still refuse to be vaccinated at this point... so be it. Unfortunately, the data suggests they'll be the ones affected most.

Pretty much my thoughts.

I agree also.

I will say there is harm in more people not getting the vaccine but I don't think it's wise to have the government force people to take it. Society can put some pressure on people to do so if that's the route they want to go. I haven't spent a ton of time reading about it but the last I saw vaccination rates were actually going up. In the last week locally Covid cases have gone from like 70 a week or even less to sometimes that many in just a day.

Bleed what has the CDC done to lose your trust?

FWIW I did some reading about the delta variant this weekend and even though I am vaccinated I did decide I plan to be more cautious. The last year plus make me really enjoy not being sick. One of my co-workers still can't taste like she did before she had COVID and it's been over 6 months.

[bleedspeed]

Bleed what has the CDC done to lose your trust?

Message keeps changing is the biggest thing.

-No masks
-Need masks
-6 feet
-3 feet
-No masks outside
-You need a mask outside
-You need a mask after vaccination

Is the transmission rate of this Delta really so much more or is it because we are not isolating and taking precautions?

I don't trust that the CDC is doing the science or following the math. They have not been right enough to be credible in my eyes. All in all. I know 5 people that got it and one died. He had several other issues. For the others, it was a nothing event. So you add in vaccination protection I am more worried about the flu.

[Monster]

Bleed what has the CDC done to lose your trust?

Message keeps changing is the biggest thing.

-No masks
-Need masks
-6 feet
-3 feet
-No masks outside
-You need a mask outside
-You need a mask after vaccination

Is the transmission rate of this Delta really so much more or is it because we are not isolating and taking precautions?

I don't trust that the CDC is doing the science or following the math. They have not been right enough to be credible in my eyes. All in all. I know 5 people that got it and one died. He had several other issues. For the others, it was a nothing event. So you add in vaccination protection I am more worried about the flu.

Bleed I get where you are coming from but there is and has been new information all the time that can change things. The Delta variant is MUCH more contagious. Why? Whatever particle that may get to a person has 1000x more infectious material in it. (I think I explained that correctly). Before maybe you get a particle or even 2 but it's not enough to infect. Now one particle is worse than multiple particles before. They are even saying the cloth masks aren't enough it's more wise to go for some KN 95 or the N95 masks or at the very least get some new cloth masks (they are only good for so many washings) or do the cloth mask and surgical mask combo. I don't mind paying a few bucks for a some of the better masks as I don't go too many crowded places that often anyway. When I go to Vegas for the summer league I'll be wearing those.

[Coolbreeze44]

Bleed what has the CDC done to lose your trust?

Message keeps changing is the biggest thing.

-No masks
-Need masks
-6 feet
-3 feet
-No masks outside
-You need a mask outside
-You need a mask after vaccination

Is the transmission rate of this Delta really so much more or is it because we are not isolating and taking precautions?

I don't trust that the CDC is doing the science or following the math. They have not been right enough to be credible in my eyes. All in all. I know 5 people that got it and one died. He had several other issues. For the others, it was a nothing event. So you add in vaccination protection I am more worried about the flu.

I agree with most of this Bleed. It's hard for me to trust anything coming from the government, and I think the CDC is in lockstep with the Biden Administration, who is in lockstep with WHO and the Chinese government. One thing I can say with certainty is that the government does not really care about your health or mine. This isn't about that.

[Coolbreeze44]

I find the short videos on this page entertaining. I hope you will take a few minutes to watch them.

https://www.survivethenews.com/trump-won-banner-unfurled-at-texas-rangers-game-infowars-host-owen-shroyer-evicted-from-stadium-video/

[AbeVigodaLive]

Bleed what has the CDC done to lose your trust?

Message keeps changing is the biggest thing.

-No masks
-Need masks
-6 feet
-3 feet
-No masks outside
-You need a mask outside
-You need a mask after vaccination

Is the transmission rate of this Delta really so much more or is it because we are not isolating and taking precautions?

I don't trust that the CDC is doing the science or following the math. They have not been right enough to be credible in my eyes. All in all. I know 5 people that got it and one died. He had several other issues. For the others, it was a nothing event. So you add in vaccination protection I am more worried about the flu.

Bleed I get where you are coming from but there is and has been new information all the time that can change things. The Delta variant is MUCH more contagious. Why? Whatever particle that may get to a person has 1000x more infectious material in it. (I think I explained that correctly). Before maybe you get a particle or even 2 but it's not enough to infect. Now one particle is worse than multiple particles before. They are even saying the cloth masks aren't enough it's more wise to go for some KN 95 or the N95 masks or at the very least get some new cloth masks (they are only good for so many washings) or do the cloth mask and surgical mask combo. I don't mind paying a few bucks for a some of the better masks as I don't go too many crowded places that often anyway. When I go to Vegas for the summer league I'll be wearing those.

It's been rather confusing. And there does seem to have been some inconsistencies or even missteps along the way from the CDC. I guess some of it is to be expected as they raced to battle a new virus amid a political firestorm where both sides used the virus as a rallying cry for its base.

That being said... I'm not suggesting we should all follow the CDC without questioning things. But I am asking who should we trust for guidance? I know there are studies out there... https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891... but in all honesty, I aint all that smart to really know what those eggheads are telling us. Is it fair that some of the problem stems from political-motivated agents manipulating CDC messages and/or data at times for their own political purposes?

Plus, amid the overhyped media narratives on one side... we have crackpot conspiracies often created by self-serving or nefarious trolls who know that there are rubes who'll fall for it virtually every time.

There has been a lot of boy crying wolf in the past few years, whether we're anguishing over potential doomsday scenarios because we didn't like the president or a rash of easily disproved conspiracy theories.

I think social media is the real culprit here. Previously, the crackpots had no real say. Now... they're the loudest, most vocal, most opinionated and most obnoxiously sure of themselves online. Meanwhile, the mostly, kinda, sorta sane majority are marginalized as the loons scream and carry on and (un)intentionally create most of the discord.

[bleedspeed]

Bleed I get where you are coming from but there is and has been new information all the time that can change things. The Delta variant is MUCH more contagious. Why? Whatever particle that may get to a person has 1000x more infectious material in it. (I think I explained that correctly). Before maybe you get a particle or even 2 but it's not enough to infect. Now one particle is worse than multiple particles before. They are even saying the cloth masks aren't enough it's more wise to go for some KN 95 or the N95 masks or at the very least get some new cloth masks (they are only good for so many washings) or do the cloth mask and surgical mask combo. I don't mind paying a few bucks for a some of the better masks as I don't go too many crowded places that often anyway. When I go to Vegas for the summer league I'll be wearing those.

I have heard that too, but I am simple at the point of zero f-u-c-k-s given after being vaccinated. The masks were pretty much for show as most of the masks weren't going to be effective. Then the CDC says you need a mask after vaccination was even dumber. So we have a 95% effect vaccine but you need to wear a mask that might be 50% effective. It all seems like BS at this point. I followed this really closely in the beginning and live next to a lot of medical professionals and my work is focused on Healthcare providers. I trust what they say. Even the big knocker from Mayo on Dr. Dan's show is a good resource. It will be interesting. Next week is HIMSS in Vegas. How many medical experts will be wearing masks? My wife will be there so it will be interesting how normal it feels. I have gone to them in the past, but my company didn't want to make the investment this year.

https://www.himss.org/global-conference

[bleedspeed]

I think social media is the real culprit here. Previously, the crackpots had no real say. Now... they're the loudest, most vocal, most opinionated and most obnoxiously sure of themselves online. Meanwhile, the mostly, kinda, sorta sane majority are marginalized as the loons scream and carry on and (un)intentionally create most of the discord.

So true. I think mainstream media has some skin the game to as they try to stay relevant.

[Monster]

Bleed I get where you are coming from but there is and has been new information all the time that can change things. The Delta variant is MUCH more contagious. Why? Whatever particle that may get to a person has 1000x more infectious material in it. (I think I explained that correctly). Before maybe you get a particle or even 2 but it's not enough to infect. Now one particle is worse than multiple particles before. They are even saying the cloth masks aren't enough it's more wise to go for some KN 95 or the N95 masks or at the very least get some new cloth masks (they are only good for so many washings) or do the cloth mask and surgical mask combo. I don't mind paying a few bucks for a some of the better masks as I don't go too many crowded places that often anyway. When I go to Vegas for the summer league I'll be wearing those.

I have heard that too, but I am simple at the point of zero f-u-c-k-s given after being vaccinated. The masks were pretty much for show as most of the masks weren't going to be effective. Then the CDC says you need a mask after vaccination was even dumber. So we have a 95% effect vaccine but you need to wear a mask that might be 50% effective. It all seems like BS at this point. I followed this really closely in the beginning and live next to a lot of medical professionals and my work is focused on Healthcare providers. I trust what they say. Even the big knocker from Mayo on Dr. Dan's show is a good resource. It will be interesting. Next week is HIMSS in Vegas. How many medical experts will be wearing masks? My wife will be there so it will be interesting how normal it feels. I have gone to them in the past, but my company didn't want to make the investment this year.

https://www.himss.org/global-conference

Like I have said before personally wearing a mask is not a big deal. If I can do something even at this point that cuts down my chances of getting the virus then sure why not. Are there other things I could do to be healthy aside from the pandemic? Absolutely. I'll admit I'm not doing well with eating particularly healthy or getting exercise although I've been ramping up on the later but I think there is merit to wearing a mask at this point. It's also worth considering there are people that even vaccinated are more at risk than the average person. My Dad is an example of that. Ideally people in that position are consulting with their doctors (which my dad does) but that isn't always the case. Masks certainly have some effectiveness as someone I talked to a few weeks ago at work has a close family member that works in a local country health dept. Their instances of the flu this year were ridiculously low. There were a lot of valid reasons to wear masks aside from just protecting against Covid. I would be interested to hear what the medical professionals around you are or have been saying.

Looks like from the website masks will be required at that event but that's everywhere in the area.

Wait are you going to Vegas next week? It's kinda hilarious that event you mentioned lines up exactly with the NBA summer league. :)

[AbeVigodaLive]

I think social media is the real culprit here. Previously, the crackpots had no real say. Now... they're the loudest, most vocal, most opinionated and most obnoxiously sure of themselves online. Meanwhile, the mostly, kinda, sorta sane majority are marginalized as the loons scream and carry on and (un)intentionally create most of the discord.

So true. I think mainstream media has some skin the game to as they try to stay relevant.

Sure. There's a lot of money involved here. And we've seen that take the lead quite often. They need eyeballs and clicks...

But we've gotten to the point where even the most basic, sourced, balanced and substantiated mainstream media stories are being dismissed by the crackpots if it goes against what they want to believe.

Obviously, they blame the "mainstream media" and say they can't ever be trusted... meanwhile, they believe every word that Bill_Da_Dem_Killa writes on his Twitter feed.

Weird times.

- Bill_Da_Dem_Killa