WolvesFan21 wrote:The biggest issues with Spielman have been at the QB spot. Ponder was a terrible pick and disaster. Trading a 1st round pick for Bradford which could have ended up being Mahomes or Watson was a disaster.
Extending Cousins for a premium big deal remains to be seen but looks like it could likely end up in disaster as well.
Kalil who ended up being at best mediocre was a disaster. Then mostly ignoring the OLine to protect the QB's have been a continuous disaster.
To give him some credit, he has done fairly well overall with 2nd-4th rounders. But the big moves have been where he has failed.
When talking about Spielman's QB moves why did you leave out drafting Teddy or signing Case Keenum?
WolvesFan21 wrote:The biggest issues with Spielman have been at the QB spot. Ponder was a terrible pick and disaster. Trading a 1st round pick for Bradford which could have ended up being Mahomes or Watson was a disaster.
Extending Cousins for a premium big deal remains to be seen but looks like it could likely end up in disaster as well.
Kalil who ended up being at best mediocre was a disaster. Then mostly ignoring the OLine to protect the QB's have been a continuous disaster.
To give him some credit, he has done fairly well overall with 2nd-4th rounders. But the big moves have been where he has failed.
When talking about Spielman's QB moves why did you leave out drafting Teddy or signing Case Keenum?
Teddy was a decent pick that went bad, middle of the road. Case outplayed his backup status for that one year. Above avg signing.
Still when you have that many swings, I expect to see one homer hit eventually. Not a bunch of strike outs and a couple singles. He's been at this a LONG time, I can't consider it anything but failure at this point. Just being realistic.
Figure I'll join the QB discussion. I do agree with a lot of the comments about Spielman on OL and QBs. I'd also add that he traded for AJ Feeley (2nd round pick I think?) from the Eagles when he was GM with the Dolphins.
Anyway, Cousins has been decent, and if he gets better blocking could take us further.
For OL, the Kalil pick shouldn't be criticized. The consensus at the time was they should either pick Kalil, Morris Claiborne (CB, went to Dallas) or Justin Blackmon (WR, went to Jax). Kalil also went to the Pro Bowl as a rookie, and was terrible after that.
I think with QB a lot of QB drafting ends up being luck. Whether it be luck to get the #1 pick in a draft with Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck/Trevor Lawrence, or luck to get a Tom Brady at pick #199 (let's face it, even the Patriots had no idea he'd be very good or they wouldn't have risked waiting until late 6th round to grab him). Alex Smith went #1 in the same draft where Aaron Rodgers slid to a QB non-needy Packers in the late 20s. I just hope that it's luck that hasn't found us our QB rather than poor eye for talent. (as a side note, I really was wanting the Vikes to take Lamar Jackson a few years ago).
If there's one thing we should have learned over the last couple decades...it's not picking top 5 that's the key in getting a franchise QB, it's just hitting on one anywhere, and those guys are often not the hottest names in the draft.
mrhockey89 wrote:Figure I'll join the QB discussion. I do agree with a lot of the comments about Spielman on OL and QBs. I'd also add that he traded for AJ Feeley (2nd round pick I think?) from the Eagles when he was GM with the Dolphins.
Anyway, Cousins has been decent, and if he gets better blocking could take us further.
For OL, the Kalil pick shouldn't be criticized. The consensus at the time was they should either pick Kalil, Morris Claiborne (CB, went to Dallas) or Justin Blackmon (WR, went to Jax). Kalil also went to the Pro Bowl as a rookie, and was terrible after that.
I think with QB a lot of QB drafting ends up being luck. Whether it be luck to get the #1 pick in a draft with Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck/Trevor Lawrence, or luck to get a Tom Brady at pick #199 (let's face it, even the Patriots had no idea he'd be very good or they wouldn't have risked waiting until late 6th round to grab him). Alex Smith went #1 in the same draft where Aaron Rodgers slid to a QB non-needy Packers in the late 20s. I just hope that it's luck that hasn't found us our QB rather than poor eye for talent. (as a side note, I really was wanting the Vikes to take Lamar Jackson a few years ago).
If there's one thing we should have learned over the last couple decades...it's not picking top 5 that's the key in getting a franchise QB, it's just hitting on one anywhere, and those guys are often not the hottest names in the draft.
While those QB's slid, you still have to credit those teams for taking them. They took a swing and hit a homer. Spielman has had many swings and no homers. Some were blatant errors. Ponder was a guy I thought he was, same with Bradford. That's two 1st round swings and misses.
I just wonder if he is scared to swing now and tries to ride Cousins out, because if we keep overpaying Cousins that leaves little room for error with the rest of the roster. You need to be pretty perfect and nail picks from 1st round through 4th.
WF21 - Who Rick missed on when drafting QB's? That 2011 class was awful that Ponder was in.
He has a 124-114 record as a GM with Vikings. 2 - NFC Championships, 6 Playoff Appearances over 15 seasons. Based on not having that stud QB for a stretch that doesn't seem horrible.
bleedspeed177 wrote:WF21 - Who Rick missed on when drafting QB's? That 2011 class was awful that Ponder was in.
He has a 124-114 record as a GM with Vikings. 2 - NFC Championships, 6 Playoff Appearances over 15 seasons. Based on not having that stud QB for a stretch that doesn't seem horrible.
There are a lot of QB's the Vikings have missed. Like I stated earlier the Bradford trade could have ended up being Mahomes or Watson. Besides that the Vikes have passed on several other good QB's like Dak Prescott. I would have to go year by year to see who was picked where, but that doesn't mean you couldn't trade up or down either. So that is sort of pointless.
The bottom line is I just expect in 15 years to hit one homer and get an elite QB. Cousins is debatable and I still don't hate the move, the cost is the issue which then hamstrings the rest of the roster.
Ideally you do draft a guy like Mahomes and you have your cornerstone for the next 15 years. The first handful on a rookie deal as well.
bleedspeed177 wrote:WF21 - Who Rick missed on when drafting QB's? That 2011 class was awful that Ponder was in.
He has a 124-114 record as a GM with Vikings. 2 - NFC Championships, 6 Playoff Appearances over 15 seasons. Based on not having that stud QB for a stretch that doesn't seem horrible.
There are a lot of QB's the Vikings have missed. Like I stated earlier the Bradford trade could have ended up being Mahomes or Watson. Besides that the Vikes have passed on several other good QB's like Dak Prescott. I would have to go year by year to see who was picked where, but that doesn't mean you couldn't trade up or down either. So that is sort of pointless.
The bottom line is I just expect in 15 years to hit one homer and get an elite QB. Cousins is debatable and I still don't hate the move, the cost is the issue which then hamstrings the rest of the roster.
Ideally you do draft a guy like Mahomes and you have your cornerstone for the next 15 years. The first handful on a rookie deal as well.
I was always somewhat skeptical about Teddy turning into a top 10 QB but I also think it's fair to wonder what could have been with him. Spielman got him with a trade up to the last pick of the first round and honestly picking and adequate starter with that type of pick and then paying a somewhat reasonable salary would have been a win. Instead he has a significant non contact injury which was career threatening.
It could be worse we could be the Browns or Jets or Bears who for years couldn't get a QB. Heck you could throw the Broncos from that last chunk of years in there when it comes to drafting QBs. Honestly if I was gonna actually be upset they passed on someone it was Russell Wilson who people in the organization at the time did reportedly have some real level of interest in him.
I have not done my mock draft this year. I usually have a list of favorites, but just have not invested the time this year. Honestly, a lot of it is getting a feel for where talent is projected to go and knowing how many players are left at positions later in the draft that I like.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I have not done my mock draft this year. I usually have a list of favorites, but just have not invested the time this year. Honestly, a lot of it is getting a feel for where talent is projected to go and knowing how many players are left at positions later in the draft that I like.
I haven't had the energy or desire to dig much into this draft especially once I didn't feel like studying the QBs was worthwhile. Then the Vikings basically shored up everything on the roster to some extent except the oline in FA and still have some money they could spend to get someone if they didn't get a ready to start Olineman in the draft. At this point I'm gonna say the same thing my friends that's a Bears fan said a few years ago about what he wanted from his team's draft "Get some guys that are good at playing football".
Part of why I haven't even started is I have almost no base to start from. I don't think I watched a single college football game. I usually watch a few even though I'm not much of a college football fan. I didn't even watch a full Nebraska game this year.
