2022 off season

[Jester1534]

Twins sign catcher Christian Vazquez to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal. This is tremendous upgrade for the twins about not a huge price point. I personally thought it would be closer to 3 for 40 for Vazquez.

I believe last year the twins were dead last throwing out runners.

From MLBTR

For his career, Vázquez has nabbed just under 34% of attempted basestealers. He had a more modest 27.1% mark this year, but that's still narrowly above the roughly 25% league average. Statcast also credits him with a better than average arm, placing him 20th among 73 catchers with 10+ throws in pop time (average time to throw to second base).

Twins got better today also this gives them another trade chip in Jeffers to trade for a pitcher.

What are everyone's thoughts on Arraez rumors of a trade possible for Pablo Lopez of Miami? I can understand it as it was a Career year for Arraez and he's kind of postionless.
Kind of the same debate we had with Dozier a few years ago.

[FNG]

Twins sign catcher Christian Vazquez to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal. This is tremendous upgrade for the twins about not a huge price point. I personally thought it would be closer to 3 for 40 for Vazquez.

I believe last year the twins were dead last throwing out runners.

From MLBTR

For his career, Vázquez has nabbed just under 34% of attempted basestealers. He had a more modest 27.1% mark this year, but that's still narrowly above the roughly 25% league average. Statcast also credits him with a better than average arm, placing him 20th among 73 catchers with 10+ throws in pop time (average time to throw to second base).

Twins got better today also this gives them another trade chip in Jeffers to trade for a pitcher.

What are everyone's thoughts on Arraez rumors of a trade possible for Pablo Lopez of Miami? I can understand it as it was a Career year for Arraez and he's kind of postionless.
Kind of the same debate we had with Dozier a few years ago.

What a great signing for the Twins! My Red Sox fan friends are really unhappy about this...he has always been one of the most popular players in Boston, and many thought he was going back there. This is really good news.

I'm on the fence on the Arraez rumor. I don't agree that last season was a career year for him...his batting average was almost exactly his average for his 4 years in the majors, and he was a .331 career hitter before that in the minors. He did develop a little more pop in his bat last season and I expect his HR power to continue. Further, despite his height, he was quite good last year at 1b (wasn't he a Gold Glove nominee?). But I also like Lopez and we have other options at 1b, so I'm indifferent. I guess if it were my decision though, I would keep Luis...I see him as a perennial batting title challenger.

[Monster]

Twins sign catcher Christian Vazquez to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal. This is tremendous upgrade for the twins about not a huge price point. I personally thought it would be closer to 3 for 40 for Vazquez.

I believe last year the twins were dead last throwing out runners.

From MLBTR

For his career, Vázquez has nabbed just under 34% of attempted basestealers. He had a more modest 27.1% mark this year, but that's still narrowly above the roughly 25% league average. Statcast also credits him with a better than average arm, placing him 20th among 73 catchers with 10+ throws in pop time (average time to throw to second base).

Twins got better today also this gives them another trade chip in Jeffers to trade for a pitcher.

What are everyone's thoughts on Arraez rumors of a trade possible for Pablo Lopez of Miami? I can understand it as it was a Career year for Arraez and he's kind of postionless.
Kind of the same debate we had with Dozier a few years ago.

What a great signing for the Twins! My Red Sox fan friends are really unhappy about this...he has always been one of the most popular players in Boston, and many thought he was going back there. This is really good news.

I'm on the fence on the Arraez rumor. I don't agree that last season was a career year for him...his batting average was almost exactly his average for his 4 years in the majors, and he was a .331 career hitter before that in the minors. He did develop a little more pop in his bat last season and I expect his HR power to continue. Further, despite his height, he was quite good last year at 1b (wasn't he a Gold Glove nominee?). But I also like Lopez and we have other options at 1b, so I'm indifferent. I guess if it were my decision though, I would keep Luis...I see him as a perennial batting title challenger.

What I had read recently was there were a few teams likely with a chunk of money to spend interest in Vazquez so I wasn't sure if the Twins would get him or not. When my brother texted me about the deal I pretty much immediately thought of when they signed Jason Castro to a similar deal. Vazquez is a pretty drastic upgrade from Sanchez so this is a pretty big upgrade.

I really like Arraez but if he brought back big value in return I don't think he should be untouchable. Why? Maybe now he is on track working out with Nelson Cruz and taking care of his body but even last season it seemed he was slowed by injuries. He did have a career year because he pretty much played all year and upped his power numbers hitting 40 total extra base hits. Yeah maybe he could be a gold glove at 1st base but he would likely be a non-traditional hitter there at that position and I'm not sure that would be the best choice of utilizing an asset. Speaking of assets the Twins seem to have plenty of infield prospects that don't have a specific position. Could they deal away Arraez from a position of organizational strength? Sure Arraez is a sure thing but if we are talking about Lopez he is an established player too. Arraez is under team control for one more season than Lopez but at some point the team will have to pay him also if they prioritize keeping him long term. If the Twins signed Correa or found some other established long term solution as SS that might make dealing Arraez make even more sense. I'd also guess that these rumors mean teams are calling and asking if the Twins would have interest in moving Arraez.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Wow. You guys had a "legitimate" discussion about whether or not Brian Dozier can field a position? I'm "disappointed" I missed it. Can one of you bump it up so my pals Michael Cuddyer and Matt Tolbert can have a good laugh?

The Twins went into the off-season with one catcher on their 40-man roster (Jeffers) instead of the customary 3 or 4, and one catcher in their organization that anyone liked (again, Jeffers) instead of the customary 6 or 7. They sign a good catcher to raise both of those number to TWO, so now they're crowded organizationally at catcher? Not so much. How about Vasquez bat against righties, Jeffers bats against Lefties, they bring back Austillo (again, you can absolutely win a World Series with him as your 26th man), and trade their ACTUAL organizational depth at SS (Martin/Schobel/Miller/DeAndrade) for catchers who are better than the guy who plays for Macalester or Carleton?

As far as Arraez, yeah, they have spent most of their draft capital the past few seasons on non-catching position players, and they're still signing non-catcher position players, so yeah, they are going to have to trade a few of these guys for pitching. I just hope they get the right pitchers.

[Jester1534]

Correa 13 years 350 mil to the Giants.

Technically the Twins offered more AAV but these new differed money deals are really going to hurt the Middle Market teams. But I'm also sorry a 10 year 285 offer to Correa is the most Fan service offer I've ever seen. I'm not saying I would give him the the Giants offer but to think they were going to get him for less than 300 millons is a joke.

Now we Have 50 million left to spend and don't have any idea how there going to spend it. Also cant wait to watch Kyle Farmer play 100 games at short stop. Rodon and Swanson aren't signing here.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Well, that was fun while it lasted.

The offer the Twins made was very fair. Carl would have played with eight, or suited up and played short himself, before he made that offer. If CC "loved Minnesota" as much as he says, he would have taken it. $65mm for his Age 38/39/40 years, even as a DH? No thanks. Medical science will advance in that time, but so will PED testing.

This team (and organization) is very solid "3" thru "9" (and DH). If this team doesn't contend, it won't be because of that. And I don't understand this "decision" people outside the organization have made that Lewis can't play SS because he hurt his knee running into the wall playing CF. This is a blessing.

I have some ideas for the $50mm
1. I've read two different places (one Spotrac, which is very hit or miss editorially) that KC wants to shed (some of) Salvador Perez' salary. Could be BS, and maybe KC doesn't include a sweetner or retain any of the Salary, but Vasquez/Perez/Jeffers as a C/DH rotation for 3 years? That's turning a frown upside-down.
2. So the Twins are going to do this thing where the starter goes 5innings/80pitches. OK. Then they'll need five 80-pitch guys, five 50-to-65 pitch guys, and Two (closer-level) relievers. They have some of those guys, but not all of them.

[Monster]

Ok first of all I didn't think the Twins were gonna end up with Correa this offseason. I thought they did have a chance to get him if he really did want to come back to MN more than going somewhere else. That may have been the case but clearly the Giants which are a pretty good spot too offered up something way more. Still kinda sucks though and I felt it a bit when he signed elsewhere.

I'm also not really into defending the current front office. This is how I see the Correa situation.

1. Was 10 years 285 really their top offer? We won't know at this point we can accept it was but maybe if the Giants offer wasn't so much more maybe they try again. I agree with Jester that anything under 300 million didn't seem to cut it especially with what other guys got paid*

2. I think the Twins really looked at that 10 year 285 million deal as a 8 or 9 year deal for 30+ million. Obviously the Giants are probably looking at their deal as not really a 13 year deal either they are paying up front. My point is that I wasn't sure the Twins would even go 9 years on Correa based on what they have done/not done in the past and so they kinda went past what I expected. Regardless it wasn't good enough.

I'm not so sad that they didn't bring back Correa at a huge price go all those years but it's VERY hard to not feel like they came up short with that 10 year 285 million offer.

So...now what? Let's see what they do at SS and the rest of the offseason. It's not over yet but it's hard to see what they do from here.

* Dansby Swanson got 7 years 177 million. I'll be honest before this offseason I barely knew who he was because I don't follow the sport much especially outside of the AL. it seems he is a good player and to be honest I thought the way things were going he was gonna get 200 million. I'm guessing rhe Twins wouldn't go that long of a contract for him and 7 years 177 million ain't cheap but it seems kinda reasonable I'm maybe more sad about not getting him for that amount than Correa leaving.

The 11 million for Joey Gallo is a puzzling deal with so many left handed hitters already. I had forgotten he was a good defensive OF so it makes more sense that he gets more than just a couple million. They must has some landing spots already for Kepler but something is holding that back. I guess there is some legit upside to Gallo it wasn't like years ago that he was going his thing well. Maybe it works out. I was going for a different bat that that.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Ok first of all I didn't think the Twins were gonna end up with Correa this offseason. I thought they did have a chance to get him if he really did want to come back to MN more than going somewhere else. That may have been the case but clearly the Giants which are a pretty good spot too offered up something way more. Still kinda sucks though and I felt it a bit when he signed elsewhere.

I'm also not really into defending the current front office. This is how I see the Correa situation.

1. Was 10 years 285 really their top offer? We won't know at this point we can accept it was but maybe if the Giants offer wasn't so much more maybe they try again. I agree with Jester that anything under 300 million didn't seem to cut it especially with what other guys got paid*

2. I think the Twins really looked at that 10 year 285 million deal as a 8 or 9 year deal for 30+ million. Obviously the Giants are probably looking at their deal as not really a 13 year deal either they are paying up front. My point is that I wasn't sure the Twins would even go 9 years on Correa based on what they have done/not done in the past and so they kinda went past what I expected. Regardless it wasn't good enough.

I'm not so sad that they didn't bring back Correa at a huge price go all those years but it's VERY hard to not feel like they came up short with that 10 year 285 million offer.

So...now what? Let's see what they do at SS and the rest of the offseason. It's not over yet but it's hard to see what they do from here.

* Dansby Swanson got 7 years 177 million. I'll be honest before this offseason I barely knew who he was because I don't follow the sport much especially outside of the AL. it seems he is a good player and to be honest I thought the way things were going he was gonna get 200 million. I'm guessing rhe Twins wouldn't go that long of a contract for him and 7 years 177 million ain't cheap but it seems kinda reasonable I'm maybe more sad about not getting him for that amount than Correa leaving.

The 11 million for Joey Gallo is a puzzling deal with so many left handed hitters already. I had forgotten he was a good defensive OF so it makes more sense that he gets more than just a couple million. They must has some landing spots already for Kepler but something is holding that back. I guess there is some legit upside to Gallo it wasn't like years ago that he was going his thing well. Maybe it works out. I was going for a different bat that that.

The Correa stuff was nothing more than PR spin. Consider...

Detroit offered Correa 10 years and $275M... LAST year. And it even included several opt-outs and a potential $10M bonus. https://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/2022/03/11/report-reveals-new-details-of-detroit-tigers-offer-to-carlos-correa-before-signing-javier-baez/

And yet it wasn't good enough. Obviously, the Twins knew this, so they knew their 10 year $285 offer had ZERO chance.

_________

So the Twins couldn't afford Correa. Fair enough. It is what it is.

But the PR spin around it has been ridiculous. They haven't been called out on their silly ridiculous "non"-offer as much as they should have.

[Monster]

Ok first of all I didn't think the Twins were gonna end up with Correa this offseason. I thought they did have a chance to get him if he really did want to come back to MN more than going somewhere else. That may have been the case but clearly the Giants which are a pretty good spot too offered up something way more. Still kinda sucks though and I felt it a bit when he signed elsewhere.

I'm also not really into defending the current front office. This is how I see the Correa situation.

1. Was 10 years 285 really their top offer? We won't know at this point we can accept it was but maybe if the Giants offer wasn't so much more maybe they try again. I agree with Jester that anything under 300 million didn't seem to cut it especially with what other guys got paid*

2. I think the Twins really looked at that 10 year 285 million deal as a 8 or 9 year deal for 30+ million. Obviously the Giants are probably looking at their deal as not really a 13 year deal either they are paying up front. My point is that I wasn't sure the Twins would even go 9 years on Correa based on what they have done/not done in the past and so they kinda went past what I expected. Regardless it wasn't good enough.

I'm not so sad that they didn't bring back Correa at a huge price go all those years but it's VERY hard to not feel like they came up short with that 10 year 285 million offer.

So...now what? Let's see what they do at SS and the rest of the offseason. It's not over yet but it's hard to see what they do from here.

* Dansby Swanson got 7 years 177 million. I'll be honest before this offseason I barely knew who he was because I don't follow the sport much especially outside of the AL. it seems he is a good player and to be honest I thought the way things were going he was gonna get 200 million. I'm guessing rhe Twins wouldn't go that long of a contract for him and 7 years 177 million ain't cheap but it seems kinda reasonable I'm maybe more sad about not getting him for that amount than Correa leaving.

The 11 million for Joey Gallo is a puzzling deal with so many left handed hitters already. I had forgotten he was a good defensive OF so it makes more sense that he gets more than just a couple million. They must has some landing spots already for Kepler but something is holding that back. I guess there is some legit upside to Gallo it wasn't like years ago that he was going his thing well. Maybe it works out. I was going for a different bat that that.

The Correa stuff was nothing more than PR spin. Consider...

Detroit offered Correa 10 years and $275M... LAST year. And it even included several opt-outs and a potential $10M bonus. https://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/2022/03/11/report-reveals-new-details-of-detroit-tigers-offer-to-carlos-correa-before-signing-javier-baez/

And yet it wasn't good enough. Obviously, the Twins knew this, so they knew their 10 year $285 offer had ZERO chance.

_________

So the Twins couldn't afford Correa. Fair enough. It is what it is.

But the PR spin around it has been ridiculous. They haven't been called out on their silly ridiculous "non"-offer as much as they should have.

Meanwhile Correa to the Mets for 10 years 315 million after a reported medical issue caused the Giants deal to fall apart. MLB owners not paying luxury tax are excited about this development. Lol I spent a couple minutes looking to see what the medical issue is/was and didn't find anything. Maybe it's something actually concerning. Maybe it was buyers remorse. Correa gets his money from the Mets but it's odd that now he is gonna be playing 3rd instead of SS.

[Jester1534]

Ok first of all I didn't think the Twins were gonna end up with Correa this offseason. I thought they did have a chance to get him if he really did want to come back to MN more than going somewhere else. That may have been the case but clearly the Giants which are a pretty good spot too offered up something way more. Still kinda sucks though and I felt it a bit when he signed elsewhere.

I'm also not really into defending the current front office. This is how I see the Correa situation.

1. Was 10 years 285 really their top offer? We won't know at this point we can accept it was but maybe if the Giants offer wasn't so much more maybe they try again. I agree with Jester that anything under 300 million didn't seem to cut it especially with what other guys got paid*

2. I think the Twins really looked at that 10 year 285 million deal as a 8 or 9 year deal for 30+ million. Obviously the Giants are probably looking at their deal as not really a 13 year deal either they are paying up front. My point is that I wasn't sure the Twins would even go 9 years on Correa based on what they have done/not done in the past and so they kinda went past what I expected. Regardless it wasn't good enough.

I'm not so sad that they didn't bring back Correa at a huge price go all those years but it's VERY hard to not feel like they came up short with that 10 year 285 million offer.

So...now what? Let's see what they do at SS and the rest of the offseason. It's not over yet but it's hard to see what they do from here.

* Dansby Swanson got 7 years 177 million. I'll be honest before this offseason I barely knew who he was because I don't follow the sport much especially outside of the AL. it seems he is a good player and to be honest I thought the way things were going he was gonna get 200 million. I'm guessing rhe Twins wouldn't go that long of a contract for him and 7 years 177 million ain't cheap but it seems kinda reasonable I'm maybe more sad about not getting him for that amount than Correa leaving.

The 11 million for Joey Gallo is a puzzling deal with so many left handed hitters already. I had forgotten he was a good defensive OF so it makes more sense that he gets more than just a couple million. They must has some landing spots already for Kepler but something is holding that back. I guess there is some legit upside to Gallo it wasn't like years ago that he was going his thing well. Maybe it works out. I was going for a different bat that that.

The Correa stuff was nothing more than PR spin. Consider...

Detroit offered Correa 10 years and $275M... LAST year. And it even included several opt-outs and a potential $10M bonus. https://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/2022/03/11/report-reveals-new-details-of-detroit-tigers-offer-to-carlos-correa-before-signing-javier-baez/

And yet it wasn't good enough. Obviously, the Twins knew this, so they knew their 10 year $285 offer had ZERO chance.

_________

So the Twins couldn't afford Correa. Fair enough. It is what it is.

But the PR spin around it has been ridiculous. They haven't been called out on their silly ridiculous "non"-offer as much as they should have.

Meanwhile Correa to the Mets for 10 years 315 million after a reported medical issue caused the Giants deal to fall apart. MLB owners not paying luxury tax are excited about this development. Lol I spent a couple minutes looking to see what the medical issue is/was and didn't find anything. Maybe it's something actually concerning. Maybe it was buyers remorse. Correa gets his money from the Mets but it's odd that now he is gonna be playing 3rd instead of SS.

Baseball has a Cohen problem and Mets pay roll after penalties is 500 million. Which is still just a fraction of what cohen is worth which is 17 billion.


Pretty reliable sources I know say it's Correa back and their reason to believe that he will need back surgery in the next 3 years. It also sounds like Cohen was prepared to be best any offer as he was actually willing to do the original idea for Correa but the Mets were late to table because they didn't think Correa would want to play 3B.

I'm not mad the twins didn't get Correa but this is a dark day for baseball. Wait till next year when Ohtani and Soto are Free agents and they both sign with the Mets and their pay roll reaches a billion it's going to happen.