Minnesota Twins 2021 Season

[Jester1534]

Btw if everyone is wondering why Sano and garver can't hit. His name is James Rowson and he was best hitting coach in the league.

[Jester1534]

I wish I could run like buxton it's so effortless

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Win Twins. Good fight today from Minnesota. They were down a run a couple times and just kept grinding at bats. Got some timely hits and put enough runs on the board to win the game and the series. Bullpen was also big time. Nice to see Colome, especially, get the two-inning save.

[FNG]

I said this before the season, FNG, but I believe this will be Miguel Sano's last year in Minnesota regardless of how he performs. As you noted, the Twins do have other options they could put at first base and Sano hasn't played at a level worthy of his "team-friendly" contract. Either he performs like a stud and he's moved as a positive asset or he should be dumped to a team that still believes in his potential at a reasonable cost. The Twins are in win-now mode and can find plenty of ways to spend Sano's money to help make the team better.

I hate to give up on a guy with his kind of power, but his regression since his rookie year is puzzling. I thought he had an exceptional eye when he first came up...an amazing ability for a rookie to lay off the pitch off the outside corner... and combined with extraordinary power, I thought he was going to be a superstar. I gave him a pass when he began to struggle with the slider from righties, because other Twins stars (Puckett, Hunter, Cruz) have still flourished despite having challenges with good sliders (who doesn't?). But how does a guy lose the ability to hit the fastball? There has to be a story there somewhere? A hidden injury? Drugs? Personal problems? I don't know what it is, but the degree of his drop off tells me something is going on.

So if all his strike outs were pop ups to short stop would he get a longer leash?

It's been 20 at bats. Yes he's been awful so far this year but just 3 weeks ago you were saying Kepler might've lost it and he's been one of there better hitters so far this year.

Let's give it a month or two and then go from there.

An .087 average is an .087 average, unless a lot of the outs are screaming line drives. I wouldn't care if they were strikeouts or pop ups to the shortstop. Neither is good. And the problem is that it's not just the 22 at bats in the first 6 games of the season. It's also the 186 at bats last season with a .204 BA and 90 strikeouts, and the 44 ABs in spring training (many against guys who didn't make it) with a .159 average and 21 K's. How long before Rocco decides that this is no longer a slump, but rather a guy who seems to have lost the ability to catch up to a major league fastball? 2 K's, a pop up, and a spinner off the end of the bat today, and his 5th game out of 6 with at least 2 strike outs.

As for Kepler, I haven't read this entire thread, but there must be another poster who said Kepler might've lost it. I'm OK with Kepler, just not Kepler leading off. My recollection was that I questioned (as I have for some time now) why Rocco likes a power hitter with a poor OBP leading off rather than in the middle of the lineup, and I probably followed it up with some comparisons between Arraez and Kepler's OBPs. But I've assumed all along that Max is going to be our right fielder. And it looks like Rocco has finally figured out where to put Luis and where to put Max in the line up.

Nice win today. Great to win the first two series of the season on the road.

Sano, I'm not so sure. I'm guessing Rocco keeps running him out there until Rooker is healthy or Larnach or Kiriloff show us they don't belong in the minors. If Sano doesn't get that BA above .100, that day can't ocme soon enough for me.

[Jester1534]

Cam I finally get the DLO stuff. Miguel Sano is the DLO of the twins. Former all star that carried a team to a wild card berth.

For record I don't put a lot of stock in 2019 stats because of Covid baseball and it being a short season. Plus the start and stop of spring training. Maybe that's a wrong opinion but it's how I feel.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Cam I finally get the DLO stuff. Miguel Sano is the DLO of the twins. Former all star that carried a team to a wild card berth.

For record I don't put a lot of stock in 2019 stats because of Covid baseball and it being a short season. Plus the start and stop of spring training. Maybe that's a wrong opinion but it's how I feel.

Ha! I can see that from your point of view. Like I've said before, I root for Miguel Sano and I want him to be the prospect who routinely garnered Miguel Cabrera comparisons, but too often he has spurned me with extra long slumps and empty at bats. Or for his career he'll put up a season of slugging immediately followed by a completely forgettable campaign. When he's good he's really good, but when he's bad he's equally awful. Quite the conundrum as a fan and probably even more so as an executive.

Here's a question for anyone willing to entertain it. For a team looking to make a World Series run, would you rather have the risk/reward of Sano in the lineup or someone that has a higher floor and consistency within his play?

[Monster]

I said this before the season, FNG, but I believe this will be Miguel Sano's last year in Minnesota regardless of how he performs. As you noted, the Twins do have other options they could put at first base and Sano hasn't played at a level worthy of his "team-friendly" contract. Either he performs like a stud and he's moved as a positive asset or he should be dumped to a team that still believes in his potential at a reasonable cost. The Twins are in win-now mode and can find plenty of ways to spend Sano's money to help make the team better.

I hate to give up on a guy with his kind of power, but his regression since his rookie year is puzzling. I thought he had an exceptional eye when he first came up...an amazing ability for a rookie to lay off the pitch off the outside corner... and combined with extraordinary power, I thought he was going to be a superstar. I gave him a pass when he began to struggle with the slider from righties, because other Twins stars (Puckett, Hunter, Cruz) have still flourished despite having challenges with good sliders (who doesn't?). But how does a guy lose the ability to hit the fastball? There has to be a story there somewhere? A hidden injury? Drugs? Personal problems? I don't know what it is, but the degree of his drop off tells me something is going on.

So if all his strike outs were pop ups to short stop would he get a longer leash?

It's been 20 at bats. Yes he's been awful so far this year but just 3 weeks ago you were saying Kepler might've lost it and he's been one of there better hitters so far this year.

Let's give it a month or two and then go from there.

An .087 average is an .087 average, unless a lot of the outs are screaming line drives. I wouldn't care if they were strikeouts or pop ups to the shortstop. Neither is good. And the problem is that it's not just the 22 at bats in the first 6 games of the season. It's also the 186 at bats last season with a .204 BA and 90 strikeouts, and the 44 ABs in spring training (many against guys who didn't make it) with a .159 average and 21 K's. How long before Rocco decides that this is no longer a slump, but rather a guy who seems to have lost the ability to catch up to a major league fastball? 2 K's, a pop up, and a spinner off the end of the bat today, and his 5th game out of 6 with at least 2 strike outs.

As for Kepler, I haven't read this entire thread, but there must be another poster who said Kepler might've lost it. I'm OK with Kepler, just not Kepler leading off. My recollection was that I questioned (as I have for some time now) why Rocco likes a power hitter with a poor OBP leading off rather than in the middle of the lineup, and I probably followed it up with some comparisons between Arraez and Kepler's OBPs. But I've assumed all along that Max is going to be our right fielder. And it looks like Rocco has finally figured out where to put Luis and where to put Max in the line up.

Nice win today. Great to win the first two series of the season on the road.

Sano, I'm not so sure. I'm guessing Rocco keeps running him out there until Rooker is healthy or Larnach or Kiriloff show us they don't belong in the minors. If Sano doesn't get that BA above .100, that day can't ocme soon enough for me.

Getting back to Morneau not being negative about Sano...how about we wait a few more games before asking the Twins broadcast group to rip the guy. Like other have said if Sano really doesn't hit they have some other options...assuming guys don't keep getting hurt.

[Jester1534]

Cam I finally get the DLO stuff. Miguel Sano is the DLO of the twins. Former all star that carried a team to a wild card berth.

For record I don't put a lot of stock in 2019 stats because of Covid baseball and it being a short season. Plus the start and stop of spring training. Maybe that's a wrong opinion but it's how I feel.

Ha! I can see that from your point of view. Like I've said before, I root for Miguel Sano and I want him to be the prospect who routinely garnered Miguel Cabrera comparisons, but too often he has spurned me with extra long slumps and empty at bats. Or for his career he'll put up a season of slugging immediately followed by a completely forgettable campaign. When he's good he's really good, but when he's bad he's equally awful. Quite the conundrum as a fan and probably even more so as an executive.

Here's a question for anyone willing to entertain it. For a team looking to make a World Series run, would you rather have the risk/reward of Sano in the lineup or someone that has a higher floor and consistency within his play?

I was interested so I looked at the teams I consider World Series contenders. Here's who batted 7th in there line up today or when they previously played. This where Sano should be batting with the rise of buxton.

Jay Bruce Yankees
Austin Riley braves
Ha Seong Kim Padres
Tyler O'Neill's cardinals
Alemdys Diaz Houston
Austin Barnes dodgers

The problem with Royce and most writers they have unrealistic expectations for him based on his past. He's not that guy anymore. But as a 7 hitter look at the list above none of those guys are super talented.

All I know is Brent Rooker has done nothing to prove himself.

I love Killiroff but there not going to call him up for service time and maybe he's not ready yet.

Maybe the turtle can play first but idk I'm
Not big fan he just swings at everything but makes a lot of weak contact

Garver has hit as bad as Sano and Jeffers doesn't play first base.

So what are the options we have at first base. I see a guy who plays Average defense with potential of 30 home runs and will probably hit .220

Like you said Stop the Miggy comparisons he's not that he's Adam Dunn get used to it.

He hasn't his at all and his WAR is -0.1 what are we doing here lol.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Game 1: Miguel Sano batted fourth.
Game 2: Miguel Sano batted fifth.
Game 3: Miguel Sano batted fifth.
Game 4: Miguel Sano batted seventh.
Game 5: Miguel Sano batted seventh.
Game 6: Miguel Sano batted sixth.

In 2019, Sano batted fifth or sixth in Minnesota's lineup in 54 of the 99 games that he started. In 2020, Sano batted fifth or sixth in 30 of the 53 games that he started in.

I note all of this to say that Sano is being penciled in as a middle-of-the-lineup bat more than 50-percent of the games he starts. If he was strictly a seven-hole hitter, then I might be easier on him despite his inconsistent production. I just think there are better hitters that are routinely available that would provide more consistent production in those key spots in the lineup.

[Jester1534]

Game 1: Miguel Sano batted fourth.
Game 2: Miguel Sano batted fifth.
Game 3: Miguel Sano batted fifth.
Game 4: Miguel Sano batted seventh.
Game 5: Miguel Sano batted seventh.
Game 6: Miguel Sano batted sixth.

In 2019, Sano batted fifth or sixth in Minnesota's lineup in 54 of the 99 games that he started. In 2020, Sano batted fifth or sixth in 30 of the 53 games that he started in.

I note all of this to say that Sano is being penciled in as a middle-of-the-lineup bat more than 50-percent of the games he starts. If he was strictly a seven-hole hitter, then I might be easier on him despite his inconsistent production. I just think there are better hitters that are routinely available that would provide more consistent production in those key spots in the lineup.

I will play devils advocate

I would argue those first 3 games were without Cruz in line up because of no DH.

2019 he had pretty good season so he was batting where he should be.

In 2020 how many of those 30 games where Donaldson and Cruz out of line up or at least one of them out of line up. I would look it up but I think you can do it quicker than me.

I agree though he's not middle of the line up hitter. He's a seven hitter. You just listed the games Rocco is already moving him down the order. Batted him 6th because lefty was on the mound today.

Edit: another point in 2020 he batted sixth in both playoff games. One was without Donaldson the other was without buxton and Donaldson.