monsterpile wrote:Some good stuff here let me lay out a few things from where I sit.
First of all I want to admit I don't know the MLB like I know the NBA or maybe even the NFL in terms of talent and teams. I'm probably more of a casual fan of the league but knows his own team well and knows the teams in the division pretty well also. I do think there are times there are advantages to not knowing all the players etc but generally I'm behind in that regard.
Next Cam and Jester I want to be sure you know I get and respect your positions. I see you I hear you. I get wanting to go out and just get gets. This offseason is different. Last year there was some ridiculous talent in FA but the reality was the Twins weren't winners at that time and yet weren't bad. This season they came of a year where they had one of the best records in baseball and had one of the best regular season offenses in the league. Going all in absolutely makes some sense.
I personally find the idea that the Twins are trying to fool people (fans) by just throwing some offers out there to be unfair. This is a pretty damn competitive business Saying that basically makes it sound like the people in charge really have no desire to win. I think if you really get down to it you don't think that right? Maybe that's being too strong coming from me.
I think we can at least agree people see the same situationS differently. That Peloton commercial is an example of how one person can see fear and horror and another one see excitement and thrill of a gift they had been longing for. You guys laid out what you saw so I'll lay out more what I see from my perspective.
I don't feel fooled. Why? I'm pretty conservative when it comes to resources. The Twins with Falvine are probably being more aggressive than I would be. I've also admitted on these boards and to myself and others that at times I'm probably too much that way. When I played fantasy sports I didn't really like the trade market. Too much unknown what the other people wanted. Now I was always really active On the waiver wires etc. The advantage of fantasy sports is it all about the numbers and production...who cares of the guy is like able or not. Of course I end up having a certain affinity (or dislike) for players based on how they perform but yeah. So anyway when I look at say Zack Wheeler and maybe I saw the most I think he is worth is 5 years 100 million (I'm not sure how much I value him at...see point 1) but let's say yeah sure maybe the market changes or I see options are limited maybe I push it up a bit more to 105 million or whatever. At some point if you don't think a guy is worth paying for you are out. I'm fine with that. Personally at this point I think Wheeler is being overrated. I think he was a guy mentioned early on in this thread as a guy to go after. A couple here really believe in him. I liked going after him at a certain price and length of contract. He is getting well above what I value him at. I don't feel fooled because the Twins did matches what I would have done. You aren't happy with what they did because it doesn't match what you would have done. That's cool. I get why I could be labeled "that fan" and to some extent I probably still am one of those BUT I do think I have more of a healthy realism than I had 10 years ago. Ultimately I think there are more ways to get around to things than a couple paths. I tend to like mine though... lol
Like I said a couple week ago at a study class at church I'm a weird combination of optimism and Skepticism balled into one. I'm trying to use both of those things to help me be more genuinely curious about the world around me. I have a long way to go but it's a goal that's kind of exciting. That's kind of a weird way of ending this post but I emptied out what I was thinking...until I hit post them 87 other thoughts will naturally cole to mind as tends to be the case.
Go Twins!
Monster first off I want to say is I respect your opinon. You need to stop downplaying your knowledge of baseball because honestly you have better grasp on it than most people.
As far as the money spending goes the twins have promised with the new stadium that would be spend more money this has been mostly false. We were told last year when the window is open we have the go ahead to go big. The people that I know in orgnzation said they didnt even talk to Strausburg or Cole. Then I hear a report on the gleeman and the geek podcast bascailly Falvey gving the well we tried speech. We're Not LA or New York we have to spend 20 million extra to get someone to come here.
The most frightening thing is the twins bigges contract in history ia four-year, $54 million deal to Ervin Santana. You want to know what postion player wise is??? Jason Castro three-year, $24.5 million contract. Thats in the teams history.
Thanks for the respect.
I'm pretty sure Joe Mauer made a bit more than either of those guys...put together. Lol My brother did point out that years ago the Twins did step up to the plate and paid Kirby Puckett a massive deal at the time which now looks hilarious how little it was. Don't get Roy Smalley talking about what he could be making now! Smalley is only joking though he is happy to have played and got paid what he did.
As long as the Twins don't come out and say they didn't talk to Strausburg and Cole because they didn't fit their plan like the Knicks did then I am cool. Lol If they really didn't even call then yeah that kinda sucks. I also wonder especially in the NBA if things have been communicated that a call isn't needed if you know what I mean. As conservative as I am I would either make myself place a call or hire someone who was willing to Call and get shot down. lol
monsterpile wrote:It's weird to me that Cleveland has such low attendance. If I lived in that area I would have gone to a bunch of games myself and I'm a Twins fan. That was a fun team to keep track of last year. They have some terrific players. I'm gonna have to ask the guy I work with That has a whole bunch of family in Cleveland what the deal is.
Locals are obviously too busy dealing with the success of the Cleveland Brow-- oop, no, that's not it.
Well, locals are obviously too busy dealing with the success of the Cleveland Ca-- oop, no, that's not it either.
I do think who gets paid on a team dynamic makes a difference. It's not THE reason to sign or not sign a guy but I think it's a worthwhile thing to consider. I think it was Souhan that said on a podcast a few years ago the Vikings are really continua about the FA they sign to big money from the outside. They feel like they have to be the right guys or sometimes it ends up being a bit of a problem. For the Vikings it's a bit different because they have hand fairly talented rosters with just some positions groups that needed to be upgraded so that plan is easier to do.
To me a guy like Donaldson getting paid probably isn't going to bug anyone unless he comes in like an entitled guy that knows everything. I think I read he was awesome last year in ever regard. He has accomplished a lot in his career. Other guys can look at a guy like that and say "Hey I can get paid in my mid to late 30's if I produce". I think a lot of players get they aren't going to get the big money right away. You can't tiptoe around your own players because their feelings will be hurt because you pay a good player. You may not want to overpay a guy you aren't sure how he is going to fit in. I have no idea if anyone hasn't been signed because of this but again it's something to consider.
Bleed does bring up that we will have to pay some guys down the road. What if you overpaid player X and now you have a player Y who proves to be clearly better than the guy you signed and his market value is now only a bit more than the guy you overpaid? That's not a good situation to be in especially if the guy you overpaid has multiple years left on his deal. I think I see where Bleed is coming from with Wheeler. I don't know enough about the guy to know if I'm in complete agreement with him on his stance but I think there is some valid points there.
I do think at times it's easier to blame the Pohlads and the front office etc for being cheap than some of the possible other realities that are not easy to stomach either. What if Wheeler really did want to go to Philly? What if Strasburg ultimately wanted to stay in Washington? What if Cole really wanted to play for the Yankees? These are all possible. Nobody REALLY knows so I'm not going to assume they did or didn't but in my mind they could have narrowed it down and we're going to have to be blown away to change their minds. The top of the league players like these guys can do almost whatever they want they are going to get paid either way. It feel more like the NBA top of the food chain FA with MLB the last 2years. It's kinda interesting. Now do I think that the Pihlads have been cheap in the past? Yes do I think this franchise despite whatever ownership did or didn't want to spend suggested a more frugal approach to FA? Yes. Do I also think there were times they went for a few guys and pretty much regardless of money they didn't get anyone because they were the Twins? Yes. There is plenty of reason for angst and frustration. Like my brother said more of the Twins failures of the past chunk of years was more poor decision making and developing talent than what they did or didn't spend. Before Berrios name the best starter since Johan Santana era this team developed...did I forget Someone? Prett much the best thing we got out of the top starters was Kyle Gibson guys...if we were lucky. As Bleed pointed out Cleveland developed their talent from within. The starting pitching They have turned out is ridiculous. This franchise has to do more than they have even signing Cole wasn't going going to be enough If this team wasn't going to develop some more worthy players. Signing Cole isn't something I would object to BTW!!!! Lol
monsterpile wrote:Some good stuff here let me lay out a few things from where I sit.
First of all I want to admit I don't know the MLB like I know the NBA or maybe even the NFL in terms of talent and teams. I'm probably more of a casual fan of the league but knows his own team well and knows the teams in the division pretty well also. I do think there are times there are advantages to not knowing all the players etc but generally I'm behind in that regard.
Next Cam and Jester I want to be sure you know I get and respect your positions. I see you I hear you. I get wanting to go out and just get gets. This offseason is different. Last year there was some ridiculous talent in FA but the reality was the Twins weren't winners at that time and yet weren't bad. This season they came of a year where they had one of the best records in baseball and had one of the best regular season offenses in the league. Going all in absolutely makes some sense.
I personally find the idea that the Twins are trying to fool people (fans) by just throwing some offers out there to be unfair. This is a pretty damn competitive business Saying that basically makes it sound like the people in charge really have no desire to win. I think if you really get down to it you don't think that right? Maybe that's being too strong coming from me.
I think we can at least agree people see the same situationS differently. That Peloton commercial is an example of how one person can see fear and horror and another one see excitement and thrill of a gift they had been longing for. You guys laid out what you saw so I'll lay out more what I see from my perspective.
I don't feel fooled. Why? I'm pretty conservative when it comes to resources. The Twins with Falvine are probably being more aggressive than I would be. I've also admitted on these boards and to myself and others that at times I'm probably too much that way. When I played fantasy sports I didn't really like the trade market. Too much unknown what the other people wanted. Now I was always really active On the waiver wires etc. The advantage of fantasy sports is it all about the numbers and production...who cares of the guy is like able or not. Of course I end up having a certain affinity (or dislike) for players based on how they perform but yeah. So anyway when I look at say Zack Wheeler and maybe I saw the most I think he is worth is 5 years 100 million (I'm not sure how much I value him at...see point 1) but let's say yeah sure maybe the market changes or I see options are limited maybe I push it up a bit more to 105 million or whatever. At some point if you don't think a guy is worth paying for you are out. I'm fine with that. Personally at this point I think Wheeler is being overrated. I think he was a guy mentioned early on in this thread as a guy to go after. A couple here really believe in him. I liked going after him at a certain price and length of contract. He is getting well above what I value him at. I don't feel fooled because the Twins did matches what I would have done. You aren't happy with what they did because it doesn't match what you would have done. That's cool. I get why I could be labeled "that fan" and to some extent I probably still am one of those BUT I do think I have more of a healthy realism than I had 10 years ago. Ultimately I think there are more ways to get around to things than a couple paths. I tend to like mine though... lol
Like I said a couple week ago at a study class at church I'm a weird combination of optimism and Skepticism balled into one. I'm trying to use both of those things to help me be more genuinely curious about the world around me. I have a long way to go but it's a goal that's kind of exciting. That's kind of a weird way of ending this post but I emptied out what I was thinking...until I hit post them 87 other thoughts will naturally cole to mind as tends to be the case.
Go Twins!
Monster first off I want to say is I respect your opinon. You need to stop downplaying your knowledge of baseball because honestly you have better grasp on it than most people.
As far as the money spending goes the twins have promised with the new stadium that would be spend more money this has been mostly false. We were told last year when the window is open we have the go ahead to go big. The people that I know in orgnzation said they didnt even talk to Strausburg or Cole. Then I hear a report on the gleeman and the geek podcast bascailly Falvey gving the well we tried speech. We're Not LA or New York we have to spend 20 million extra to get someone to come here.
The most frightening thing is the twins bigges contract in history ia four-year, $54 million deal to Ervin Santana. You want to know what postion player wise is??? Jason Castro three-year, $24.5 million contract. Thats in the teams history.
Thanks for the respect.
I'm pretty sure Joe Mauer made a bit more than either of those guys...put together. Lol My brother did point out that years ago the Twins did step up to the plate and paid Kirby Puckett a massive deal at the time which now looks hilarious how little it was. Don't get Roy Smalley talking about what he could be making now! Smalley is only joking though he is happy to have played and got paid what he did.
As long as the Twins don't come out and say they didn't talk to Strausburg and Cole because they didn't fit their plan like the Knicks did then I am cool. Lol If they really didn't even call then yeah that kinda sucks. I also wonder especially in the NBA if things have been communicated that a call isn't needed if you know what I mean. As conservative as I am I would either make myself place a call or hire someone who was willing to Call and get shot down. lol
Mauer and Puckett were resigned. I was talking about non in house free agents.
monsterpile wrote:Some good stuff here let me lay out a few things from where I sit.
First of all I want to admit I don't know the MLB like I know the NBA or maybe even the NFL in terms of talent and teams. I'm probably more of a casual fan of the league but knows his own team well and knows the teams in the division pretty well also. I do think there are times there are advantages to not knowing all the players etc but generally I'm behind in that regard.
Next Cam and Jester I want to be sure you know I get and respect your positions. I see you I hear you. I get wanting to go out and just get gets. This offseason is different. Last year there was some ridiculous talent in FA but the reality was the Twins weren't winners at that time and yet weren't bad. This season they came of a year where they had one of the best records in baseball and had one of the best regular season offenses in the league. Going all in absolutely makes some sense.
I personally find the idea that the Twins are trying to fool people (fans) by just throwing some offers out there to be unfair. This is a pretty damn competitive business Saying that basically makes it sound like the people in charge really have no desire to win. I think if you really get down to it you don't think that right? Maybe that's being too strong coming from me.
I think we can at least agree people see the same situationS differently. That Peloton commercial is an example of how one person can see fear and horror and another one see excitement and thrill of a gift they had been longing for. You guys laid out what you saw so I'll lay out more what I see from my perspective.
I don't feel fooled. Why? I'm pretty conservative when it comes to resources. The Twins with Falvine are probably being more aggressive than I would be. I've also admitted on these boards and to myself and others that at times I'm probably too much that way. When I played fantasy sports I didn't really like the trade market. Too much unknown what the other people wanted. Now I was always really active On the waiver wires etc. The advantage of fantasy sports is it all about the numbers and production...who cares of the guy is like able or not. Of course I end up having a certain affinity (or dislike) for players based on how they perform but yeah. So anyway when I look at say Zack Wheeler and maybe I saw the most I think he is worth is 5 years 100 million (I'm not sure how much I value him at...see point 1) but let's say yeah sure maybe the market changes or I see options are limited maybe I push it up a bit more to 105 million or whatever. At some point if you don't think a guy is worth paying for you are out. I'm fine with that. Personally at this point I think Wheeler is being overrated. I think he was a guy mentioned early on in this thread as a guy to go after. A couple here really believe in him. I liked going after him at a certain price and length of contract. He is getting well above what I value him at. I don't feel fooled because the Twins did matches what I would have done. You aren't happy with what they did because it doesn't match what you would have done. That's cool. I get why I could be labeled "that fan" and to some extent I probably still am one of those BUT I do think I have more of a healthy realism than I had 10 years ago. Ultimately I think there are more ways to get around to things than a couple paths. I tend to like mine though... lol
Like I said a couple week ago at a study class at church I'm a weird combination of optimism and Skepticism balled into one. I'm trying to use both of those things to help me be more genuinely curious about the world around me. I have a long way to go but it's a goal that's kind of exciting. That's kind of a weird way of ending this post but I emptied out what I was thinking...until I hit post them 87 other thoughts will naturally cole to mind as tends to be the case.
Go Twins!
Monster first off I want to say is I respect your opinon. You need to stop downplaying your knowledge of baseball because honestly you have better grasp on it than most people.
As far as the money spending goes the twins have promised with the new stadium that would be spend more money this has been mostly false. We were told last year when the window is open we have the go ahead to go big. The people that I know in orgnzation said they didnt even talk to Strausburg or Cole. Then I hear a report on the gleeman and the geek podcast bascailly Falvey gving the well we tried speech. We're Not LA or New York we have to spend 20 million extra to get someone to come here.
The most frightening thing is the twins bigges contract in history ia four-year, $54 million deal to Ervin Santana. You want to know what postion player wise is??? Jason Castro three-year, $24.5 million contract. Thats in the teams history.
Thanks for the respect.
I'm pretty sure Joe Mauer made a bit more than either of those guys...put together. Lol My brother did point out that years ago the Twins did step up to the plate and paid Kirby Puckett a massive deal at the time which now looks hilarious how little it was. Don't get Roy Smalley talking about what he could be making now! Smalley is only joking though he is happy to have played and got paid what he did.
As long as the Twins don't come out and say they didn't talk to Strausburg and Cole because they didn't fit their plan like the Knicks did then I am cool. Lol If they really didn't even call then yeah that kinda sucks. I also wonder especially in the NBA if things have been communicated that a call isn't needed if you know what I mean. As conservative as I am I would either make myself place a call or hire someone who was willing to Call and get shot down. lol
Mauer and Puckett were resigned. I was talking about non in house free agents.
Seems like a plenty worthwhile move to me on a minor league deal. He was putting up some pretty good numbers for the Tigers in AAA the last 2 years. He had been hired in September at Augustana to be their pitching coach.
The Diamondbacks are nearing a five-year deal that will bring free agent left-hander Madison Bumgarner to Arizona, reports ESPN's Jeff Passan. While the precise value of the contract remains unknown, Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the deal will pay Bumgarner between $80MM and $90MM.
Consider me highly disappointed in the Twins' management.
The Diamondbacks are nearing a five-year deal that will bring free agent left-hander Madison Bumgarner to Arizona, reports ESPN's Jeff Passan. While the precise value of the contract remains unknown, Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the deal will pay Bumgarner between $80MM and $90MM.
Consider me highly disappointed in the Twins' management.
The Diamondbacks are nearing a five-year deal that will bring free agent left-hander Madison Bumgarner to Arizona, reports ESPN's Jeff Passan. While the precise value of the contract remains unknown, Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the deal will pay Bumgarner between $80MM and $90MM.
Consider me highly disappointed in the Twins' management.
5 for 85 what a joke
Yeah, I don't really want to see anyone defending the front office and ownership after this. 5/85 is a very fair deal for Bumgarner and Minnesota will say the usual "we got outbid" bullshit.
