Clinging On (Wolves vs Spurs)

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Why did Finch leave KAT out there that long, and why is he putting Rudy in now. Our bench can take this home. Need rest for the big game tomorrow.

[BloopOracle]

Wtf why is KAT coming back in?

[Coolbreeze44]

Who has tie break between us and Pelicans? Does it come down to final game?

Yes sir, we finish this off today and the winter tomorrow likely faces the Lakers in the top half play in bracket

Gives us a lifeline if we drop that game to the Lakers. Which I'm sure the NBA won't allow the Lakers to lose that game to us.

Not a chance

[kekgeek]

They took care of business, tomorrow for the 8 seed

[Leado01]

Good warmup for the next week!

[FNG]

Didn't watch this one, so my comments are box score review only. I gather from reading the thread that our defense was not very good in the first quarter. But even after considering the Spurs have not been very good this year, it still takes a good team to create a 30 point lead pre garbage time on the road...and we are a good team. Some things of note:

1) 42 assists and only 7 turnover...I wonder if 42 assists is a team record.

2) Any concerns that Finchie had lost faith in JMac were premature. JMac showed us last season that the playoffs aren't too big for him, and we need a productive backup PG in the postseason. 9 assists and no turnovers is a nice prep game for him,
3)We have shown that we can be a terrific 3-point shooting team, and today was a great example...24 made threes on 56% shooting!

4) 4 blocks by Rudy. He hasn't had the block totals because (except for Dinwiddie) most guys seem unwilling to challenge him at the rim. Maybe some of these Spurs I have never heard of didn't know about Rudy and decided to challenge him...not a good idea.

Nobody played 30 minutes, so hopefully we will be ready for New Orleans tomorrow. I'm not afraid of the Lakers and would love to send them to a second play in game next week!

[60WinTim]

Just finished watching the game (I have been working long hours on the new forum and didn't realize it was an afternoon game!).

We haven't had many "easy" wins. The defense was concerning, but it sure was nice to see some guys hitting their 3s! We need that to carry over to tomorrow!

On a side note, the new forum is a pain in the ass, but I am making progress...

[Lipoli390]

Like FNG, I missed the game so I'm take is based solely on the box score.

Unlike FNG, I'm not particularly impressed by the Wolves performance. Sure they had a 30-point lead in the third quarter and won by 20. What troubles me is that the Wolves gave up 68 points in the first half when our highly motivated starters, including our great defensive center were playing back-up players on one of the worst teams in the League. Playing that poorly on the defensive end renders Rudy's 4 blocks meaningless.

Of course, the bad defense isn't all on Rudy. Today's win was essential and it's great to know our guys are clicking on offense. But I view today's game as a reminder that we can't trust this team's defense and that Rudy has not had a transformative impact on the wolves defense.

Our team defense and rebounding are no better than last season. So like last season, this team will go as far as their offense can take them.

[kekgeek]

Like FNG, I missed the game so I'm take is based solely on the box score.

Unlike FNG, I'm not particularly impressed by the Wolves performance. Sure they had a 30-point lead in the third quarter and won by 20. What troubles me is that the Wolves gave up 68 points in the first half when our highly motivated starters, including our great defensive center were playing back-up players on one of the worst teams in the League. Playing that poorly on the defensive end renders Rudy's 4 blocks meaningless.

Of course, the bad defense isn't all on Rudy. Today's win was essential and it's great to know our guys are clicking on offense. But I view today's game as a reminder that we can't trust this team's defense and that Rudy has not had a transformative impact on the wolves defense.

Our team defense and rebounding are no better than last season. So like last season, this team will go as far as their offense can take them.

That is just a factually incorrect Lip.

Minnesota timberwolves this year defensivley with Rudy Gobert on the court have a defensive rating of 110.7, the number 1 defensive team in the NBA has a defensive rating of 111.0, so when Rudy Gobert is on the court the wolves have equivalent to the number 1 defensive team in the NBA.

Now comparing the team defense with individual players when Rudy is on or off the court with them.
Wolves: On:110.7 Off: 117.3 Net: 6.6 pts better with Rudy
Conley: On: 112.4 Off: 123.0 Net: 10.6 pts better with Rudy
Edwards: On: 110.6 Off: 116.7 Net: 6.1 pts better with Rudy
Mcdaniels: On 110.7 Off: 115.9 Net 5.2 bts better with Rudy
Kat: On: 106.4 (98th percentile, one of the best defensive pairings in the NBA this year), Off 117.7 Net: 11.3 pts better with Rudy
Jmac: On 111.2 Off: 108.2 Net 3 pts worse with Rudy
Nowell: On 109.3 Off: 116.6, Net: 7.3 pts better with Rudy
NAW: On: 123.5 (Only bad Gobert combo the wolves have), Off: 114, Net: 9.5 pts worse with Rudy, the one outlier
Anderson: On: 108.8 Off: 119.0 Net: 10.2 pts better with Rudy
Prince: On:112.6 Off: 117.0 Net: 4.4 pts better with Rudy

So of 10 guys who could be in the playoff rotation the wolves are better defensively in those pairings with Rudy than with not 8 of the 10 pairings (Naw is the massive outlier). Of those pairings outside of Naw, the other 9 pairings are equivalent of a top 5 defense in the NBA when paired with Rudy. When Rudy is off the floor this year the wolves have an equivalent of the tied for the 25th best defense in the NBA outside of Jmac with out rudy. The wolves don't have single player in their who lineups would be in the top 20 in the NBA without Rudy when it comes to defense. Not a single 1. So when Rudy is on the floor with every player on the wolves the Wolves at worse are a top 5 defense in the NBA and when Rudy sits besides Jmac the wolves don't have a single player equivalent to a top 20 defense in the NBA.

For more lovely stats. When Rudy is on the floor the teams shoot an eFG% of 53.2 against the wolves, that defense is in the 77th percentile in the NBA and teams don't get to the line with a foul rate of 18.3 what is in the 86th percentile. When Rudy is off the floor the wolve opponets shoot an eFG% of 55.2 against the wolves that defense is in the 42nd percentile and the opponets get to the line at will when Rudy sits with a foul rate of 28.1 what is in the 3rd percentile of the NBA (Pathetic actually). Rudy impact when he is on and off the floor in those 2 stats are 79th percentile and 100th percentile in the NBA (Rudy impact on fouling is the greatest in the NBA).

Now for half court defense, the wolves are in the 81st percentile protecting the rim when Rudy is on the floor, they 50th percentile in the nba defending the mid range shot and they are in the 92nd percentile at defending the corner 3. 88th percentile in defense when it comes to half court defense with Rudy on the floor. The Wolves give 26.4% offensive rebound rate when Rudy is on the floor what is 64th percentile (what is slightly above average) but when Rudy is off the floor the wolve give up an offensive rebound 31.7% of shots what is in the 7th percentile. The issue the wolves have is wolves are only in the 50th percentile in half court defensive possession and that is because wolves turn the ball over a ton with Prince, Jmac, Anderson, mcdaniels, Gobert, Dlo (When here), Ant, Kat are all in the bottom 37% in the NBA in turnover rate. Not good when 7 of your top 11 rotation pieces are in the bottom 3rd of turnover rate in the NBA.

So in conclusion. The Wolves are an elite defensive team with Rudy on the floor in general, they are equivalent to the number 1 defensive team in the NBA when Rudy is on the floor. Outside of Naw there is not a single 2 man pairing that wouldn't be equivalent to a top 5 defense in the NBA with Rudy on the floor with them and outside of Jmac there would not be a single player that would have an equivalent to a top 20 defense in the NBA without Rudy on the floor with them. The Wolves are an above average team defending the paint with Rudy on the floor, they defend the corner 3 at an elite level with Rudy on the floor, they elite half court defense with Rudy on the floor, they are an above average defense rebounding team when Rudy is out there and when Rudy is off the floor they are one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA. The main question going into this year is how would the Kat/Gobert pairing be defensivly well they are one of the best defensive pairings in the NBA this year, teams literally can't score in the paint when those 2 are on the court together. According to 538 Defensive Raptor metric Rudy has been the 4th best defensive player in the NBA this year (Behind Caruso, AD, Lopez)

Rudy is not my favorite player, he drives me nuts at times but it is just factually incorrect to say Rudy has not impacted our defense and rebounding. Rudy when on the floor has made the Wolves an elite defensive team, like flat out elite defensive team in the regular season and turned one of the worst defensive rebounding team in the NBA to a slightly above average one when he is on the court.

The issue with the Wolves and Rudy has nothing to do with defense and everything to do with offense. Those numbers have improved throughout the year from bottom 10% in the NBA to the bottom 25% in the NBA (still bad). If we want to talk how Rudy changed one of the best offenses in the NBA I can listen to that argument, I guess the hope is that year 2 with Rudy the Wolves can become elite on offense like the Jazz were for many years with Rudy but at the moment Rudy has turned the wolves into an elite defensive team when he is on the court and that is just a fact.

Sorry for the novel

[Tactical unit]

Like FNG, I missed the game so I'm take is based solely on the box score.

Unlike FNG, I'm not particularly impressed by the Wolves performance. Sure they had a 30-point lead in the third quarter and won by 20. What troubles me is that the Wolves gave up 68 points in the first half when our highly motivated starters, including our great defensive center were playing back-up players on one of the worst teams in the League. Playing that poorly on the defensive end renders Rudy's 4 blocks meaningless.

Of course, the bad defense isn't all on Rudy. Today's win was essential and it's great to know our guys are clicking on offense. But I view today's game as a reminder that we can't trust this team's defense and that Rudy has not had a transformative impact on the wolves defense.

Our team defense and rebounding are no better than last season. So like last season, this team will go as far as their offense can take them.

That is just a factually incorrect Lip.

Minnesota timberwolves this year defensivley with Rudy Gobert on the court have a defensive rating of 110.7, the number 1 defensive team in the NBA has a defensive rating of 111.0, so when Rudy Gobert is on the court the wolves have equivalent to the number 1 defensive team in the NBA.

Now comparing the team defense with individual players when Rudy is on or off the court with them.
Wolves: On:110.7 Off: 117.3 Net: 6.6 pts better with Rudy
Conley: On: 112.4 Off: 123.0 Net: 10.6 pts better with Rudy
Edwards: On: 110.6 Off: 116.7 Net: 6.1 pts better with Rudy
Mcdaniels: On 110.7 Off: 115.9 Net 5.2 bts better with Rudy
Kat: On: 106.4 (98th percentile, one of the best defensive pairings in the NBA this year), Off 117.7 Net: 11.3 pts better with Rudy
Jmac: On 111.2 Off: 108.2 Net 3 pts worse with Rudy
Nowell: On 109.3 Off: 116.6, Net: 7.3 pts better with Rudy
NAW: On: 123.5 (Only bad Gobert combo the wolves have), Off: 114, Net: 9.5 pts worse with Rudy, the one outlier
Anderson: On: 108.8 Off: 119.0 Net: 10.2 pts better with Rudy
Prince: On:112.6 Off: 117.0 Net: 4.4 pts better with Rudy

So of 10 guys who could be in the playoff rotation the wolves are better defensively in those pairings with Rudy than with not 8 of the 10 pairings (Naw is the massive outlier). Of those pairings outside of Naw, the other 9 pairings are equivalent of a top 5 defense in the NBA when paired with Rudy. When Rudy is off the floor this year the wolves have an equivalent of the tied for the 25th best defense in the NBA outside of Jmac with out rudy. The wolves don't have single player in their who lineups would be in the top 20 in the NBA without Rudy when it comes to defense. Not a single 1. So when Rudy is on the floor with every player on the wolves the Wolves at worse are a top 5 defense in the NBA and when Rudy sits besides Jmac the wolves don't have a single player equivalent to a top 20 defense in the NBA.

For more lovely stats. When Rudy is on the floor the teams shoot an eFG% of 53.2 against the wolves, that defense is in the 77th percentile in the NBA and teams don't get to the line with a foul rate of 18.3 what is in the 86th percentile. When Rudy is off the floor the wolve opponets shoot an eFG% of 55.2 against the wolves that defense is in the 42nd percentile and the opponets get to the line at will when Rudy sits with a foul rate of 28.1 what is in the 3rd percentile of the NBA (Pathetic actually). Rudy impact when he is on and off the floor in those 2 stats are 79th percentile and 100th percentile in the NBA (Rudy impact on fouling is the greatest in the NBA).

Now for half court defense, the wolves are in the 81st percentile protecting the rim when Rudy is on the floor, they 50th percentile in the nba defending the mid range shot and they are in the 92nd percentile at defending the corner 3. 88th percentile in defense when it comes to half court defense with Rudy on the floor. The Wolves give 26.4% offensive rebound rate when Rudy is on the floor what is 64th percentile (what is slightly above average) but when Rudy is off the floor the wolve give up an offensive rebound 31.7% of shots what is in the 7th percentile. The issue the wolves have is wolves are only in the 50th percentile in half court defensive possession and that is because wolves turn the ball over a ton with Prince, Jmac, Anderson, mcdaniels, Gobert, Dlo (When here), Ant, Kat are all in the bottom 37% in the NBA in turnover rate. Not good when 7 of your top 11 rotation pieces are in the bottom 3rd of turnover rate in the NBA.

So in conclusion. The Wolves are an elite defensive team with Rudy on the floor in general, they are equivalent to the number 1 defensive team in the NBA when Rudy is on the floor. Outside of Naw there is not a single 2 man pairing that wouldn't be equivalent to a top 5 defense in the NBA with Rudy on the floor with them and outside of Jmac there would not be a single player that would have an equivalent to a top 20 defense in the NBA without Rudy on the floor with them. The Wolves are an above average team defending the paint with Rudy on the floor, they defend the corner 3 at an elite level with Rudy on the floor, they elite half court defense with Rudy on the floor, they are an above average defense rebounding team when Rudy is out there and when Rudy is off the floor they are one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA. The main question going into this year is how would the Kat/Gobert pairing be defensivly well they are one of the best defensive pairings in the NBA this year, teams literally can't score in the paint when those 2 are on the court together. According to 538 Defensive Raptor metric Rudy has been the 4th best defensive player in the NBA this year (Behind Caruso, AD, Lopez)

Rudy is not my favorite player, he drives me nuts at times but it is just factually incorrect to say Rudy has not impacted our defense and rebounding. Rudy when on the floor has made the Wolves an elite defensive team, like flat out elite defensive team in the regular season and turned one of the worst defensive rebounding team in the NBA to a slightly above average one when he is on the court.

The issue with the Wolves and Rudy has nothing to do with defense and everything to do with offense. Those numbers have improved throughout the year from bottom 10% in the NBA to the bottom 25% in the NBA (still bad). If we want to talk how Rudy changed one of the best offenses in the NBA I can listen to that argument, I guess the hope is that year 2 with Rudy the Wolves can become elite on offense like the Jazz were for many years with Rudy but at the moment Rudy has turned the wolves into an elite defensive team when he is on the court and that is just a fact.

Sorry for the novel

Good research, you state Rudy and KAT pairing is elite. Do you think Rudy and another player would be more elite, because if KAT was elite wouldn't there be less of a fall off when Rudy goes to the bench. KAT stays on the court majority of the time when Rudy goes to the bench right?