Whose The New Whipping Boy? (Wolves vs. Griz)

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm giving Rudy Gobert the boot before even considering trading Karl-Anthony Towns at this point. KAT makes much more sense with Anthony Edwards long-term. I've also seen Towns be individually successful with a number of different players around him. Gobert apparently needs a very specific group around him, especially to catch routine passes and make open layups.

But... Tim Connelly is not attached to Towns. That's not one of his guys. Gobert clearly is. He's already overhauled the roster he inherited. What's one more bad trade?

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm giving Rudy Gobert the boot before even considering trading Karl-Anthony Towns at this point. KAT makes much more sense with Anthony Edwards long-term. I've also seen Towns be individually successful with a number of different players around him. Gobert apparently needs a very specific group around him, especially to catch routine passes and make open layups.

But... Tim Connelly is not attached to Towns. That's not one of his guys. Gobert clearly is. He's already overhauled the roster he inherited. What's one more bad trade?

I'd trade Rudy first myself. But I was speaking more in terms of reality and what TC is going to do. Trading Gobert would cut his own throat.

[davemang]

Who's a less useful offensive player right now, Rudy or Ben Simmons? Sheeesh. Conley surprised me a bit with how much bounce he seems to have left, haven't watched him that closely for awhile. He also surprised me with the turnovers, but hopefully that is just not being on the same page with his new teammates.

I think the deal ends up being a side grade offensively at best, assuming we take the shots dlo would be taking and give most of them to KAT when he returns with Conley getting some and Edwards getting an extra few as well.

Conley may give us better on ball/perimeter defense, but DLOs length cuts off a lot of passing lanes for playmakers and helps clog things up a bit more inside the arc when he is off ball.

[Lipoli390]

It appears the new whipping boy has been uncovered. Look, Rudy is a good player, but clearly not worth the haul we gave up to get him. The question is now what do they do? First of all, hope he meshes with KAT and we go on a run. That would solve a lot of problems obviously. But if that doesn't happen, one of the two can't come back next year. And to save face it would probably have to be KAT that goes. If we could get enough draft picks to replenish the cabinet, it would be like trading KAT for Gobert. Not ideal, but not as bad as the deal looks today.

I agree with you up to the point where you conclude that KAT would probably have to be the guy traded. You're right if TC prioritizes saving face. I'm hoping TC is bigger than that. No doubt KAT would bring back more/less protected future picks than Rudy. But if you believe in Ant and McDaniels as I do, then the quantity of picks is less important that the quality of the players we get in return. The Gobert deal was a gross overpay and Rudy's value has probably fallen a bit more as his weaknesses have been further exposed playing in a system that wasn't meticulously designed for him. His age may also be starting to catch up with. So we'd still get a decent return for him.

If the KAT/Rudy combo doesn't mesh down the stretch a lot better than it did earlier in the season, the decision on whether to trade Rudy or KAT should turn on which deal would put this team in the best position to win a championship in the next 3-4 years so we don't end up in a situation where Edwards wants to leave and tries to force his way out. I'm fine trading either one, but the decision has to be based on the likely impact of the deal on winning in the short to mid term in my view. KAT can be a great #1A or #2 with Edwards. I still think a huge key for this team will be McDaniels' continued development. He hasn't taken the leap I was hoping for, but as I've written before, we need to be patient with young players and realize that they don't all develop at the same pace.

[Sundog]

Fortunately that's an issue to be worked through this summer. For now, we can only hope KAT comes back strong and Rudy and he gel.

[FNG]

I don't think anyone feels good about last night's loss, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Memphis has the best home record in basketball...23-5. And we're missing our most efficient volume scorer...not to mention a very good rebounder. I think any talk of moving KAT or Rudy is premature...we only had about 20 games to see how they jive, and I don't think KAT's 30% shooting (on looks he normally is 40%) is an accurate assessment of how they are going to play together. Plus we have added a PG with a history (and even a recent history...hello Lauri) of making players better. I'm quite optimistic about how this team will gel after KAT is truly ready to play. Let's give this one a little more time...

[Lipoli390]

I don't think anyone feels good about last night's loss, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Memphis has the best home record in basketball...23-5. And we're missing our most efficient volume scorer...not to mention a very good rebounder. I think any talk of moving KAT or Rudy is premature...we only had about 20 games to see how they jive, and I don't think KAT's 30% shooting (on looks he normally is 40%) is an accurate assessment of how they are going to play together. Plus we have added a PG with a history (and even a recent history...hello Lauri) of making players better. I'm quite optimistic about how this team will gel after KAT is truly ready to play. Let's give this one a little more time...

FNG - I have to admire your spirited optimism in the face of the Wolves' bleak reality. :) As for rebounding, one of my take-aways from the 20+ games KAT and Rudy played together was that their rebounding isn't additive. As I expected, the vast majority of rebounds Rudy gets are the ones KAT would get. Vando's rebounds were the loose balls and long caroms. Those rebounds were additive to KAT's. That's why we weren't rebounding any better this season with KAT and Gobert together than we were last season. I expect the same when KAT returns. Hopefully, this time the offense will be better and the defense will be stronger. I'm hoping those guys gel and that we can salvage the season over the next 23 games. But then there's that damn schedule.

[Lipoli390]

I'm giving Rudy Gobert the boot before even considering trading Karl-Anthony Towns at this point. KAT makes much more sense with Anthony Edwards long-term. I've also seen Towns be individually successful with a number of different players around him. Gobert apparently needs a very specific group around him, especially to catch routine passes and make open layups.

But... Tim Connelly is not attached to Towns. That's not one of his guys. Gobert clearly is. He's already overhauled the roster he inherited. What's one more bad trade?

I'd trade Rudy first myself. But I was speaking more in terms of reality and what TC is going to do. Trading Gobert would cut his own throat.

Cool - I think you, Cam and I all agree on what TC is likely to do when it comes to trading either KAT or Gobert. And we also all agree that the better move would be trading Gobert. But I'm still holding out hope that TC is bigger than that.

[Coolbreeze44]

It appears the new whipping boy has been uncovered. Look, Rudy is a good player, but clearly not worth the haul we gave up to get him. The question is now what do they do? First of all, hope he meshes with KAT and we go on a run. That would solve a lot of problems obviously. But if that doesn't happen, one of the two can't come back next year. And to save face it would probably have to be KAT that goes. If we could get enough draft picks to replenish the cabinet, it would be like trading KAT for Gobert. Not ideal, but not as bad as the deal looks today.

I agree with you up to the point where you conclude that KAT would probably have to be the guy traded. You're right if TC prioritizes saving face. I'm hoping TC is bigger than that. No doubt KAT would bring back more/less protected future picks than Rudy. But if you believe in Ant and McDaniels as I do, then the quantity of picks is less important that the quality of the players we get in return. The Gobert deal was a gross overpay and Rudy's value has probably fallen a bit more as his weaknesses have been further exposed playing in a system that wasn't meticulously designed for him. His age may also be starting to catch up with. So we'd still get a decent return for him.

If the KAT/Rudy combo doesn't mesh down the stretch a lot better than it did earlier in the season, the decision on whether to trade Rudy or KAT should turn on which deal would put this team in the best position to win a championship in the next 3-4 years so we don't end up in a situation where Edwards wants to leave and tries to force his way out. I'm fine trading either one, but the decision has to be based on the likely impact of the deal on winning in the short to mid term in my view. KAT can be a great #1A or #2 with Edwards. I still think a huge key for this team will be McDaniels' continued development. He hasn't taken the leap I was hoping for, but as I've written before, we need to be patient with young players and realize that they don't all develop at the same pace.

You're right we SHOULD make the best deal for the overall health of the organization. I'm just saying I don't think TC is going to cut his own throat by turning around and trading Rudy for half the assets he sent out. You are probably the biggest KAT supporter on the forum. You continue to believe in things we have never seen to date, such as KAT being the catalyst to a top ten team. To be honest, I would trade both of them and REALLY build this thing around Ant and Jaden. And in regards to Jaden, he hasn't improved as you would have hoped? What were you expecting this year, for him to become Ray Allen? Almost all of his stats are up and he should be all NBA defense this year. His handle is worlds better. He guards the top players in the world every night. What did you expect?

[TAFKASP]

To be honest, I would trade both of them and REALLY build this thing around Ant and Jaden.

This 100%!