Q-was-here wrote:
But you seem to be assuming that the assets we get back from any of these three will help us this year more than the assets we send out. Are you sure about that? Do you really think we can land a Cassell or Sprewell with any of those guys?
None of us have any real idea of what is possible. Let's see what happens. Obviously I do no support dumping productive players for poor returns. TC needs to earn his money and find the right deals. Hopefully he can redeem himself some after the Gobert trade. We have some players that should have some value - it's not like we don't have anything to offer.
Edit. I've F'd this up twice. But here is what it took to get Sam Cassell back in the day:
June 27, 2003: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks with Ervin Johnson to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Anthony Peeler and Joe Smith.
Q-was-here wrote:
But you seem to be assuming that the assets we get back from any of these three will help us this year more than the assets we send out. Are you sure about that? Do you really think we can land a Cassell or Sprewell with any of those guys?
None of us have any real idea of what is possible. Let's see what happens. Obviously I do no support dumping productive players for poor returns. TC needs to earn his money and find the right deals. Hopefully he can redeem himself some after the Gobert trade. We have some players that should have some value - it's not like we don't have anything to offer.
Edit. I've F'd this up twice. But here is what it took to get Sam Cassell back in the day:
June 27, 2003: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks with Ervin Johnson to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Anthony Peeler and Joe Smith.
My contention is that what we have to offer is likely not going to bring anything back that is somehow better for THIS season. We trade Naz for.....who exactly that is going to be a better backup to Gobert in KAT's absence? We trade DLO for....who exactly that can play great defense, while still handling the ball and making open 3s?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I just struggle to conjure up deals involving our expiring contracts that would end up being upgrades to the current team in their playoff push.
Now if the season were lost and we are talking about recovering some draft assets, that's a different story. But none of those draft assets help us this year in a tight playoff race.
crazysauce wrote:Doogie said that the nuggets would want Prince for Hyland. I say no to that deal.
Honestly, trading for Hyland makes no sense. He's a terrible defender. As for his offense, he's a career 40% FG shooter, 36% from behind the arc. He doesn't rebound or facilitate. I think it would be nuts to give up anyone in the Wolves organization other than Forbes for Hyland.
I don't want to see a major trade at this point and it's hard to see how this team could improve this season through a minor trade involving Naz or Nowell. Given our depleted draft assets, I certainly wouldn't give up Minott, Garza or Moore The one thing I'd like to see this team bring in via a minor trade would be a mobile rebounder like Vanderbilt - a guy who gets those 50-50 balls. If our front office is convinced they won't be able to keep Nowell or Naz, then they should trade one or both of them by the deadline - but not for Bones Hyland!
Whoa.
I don't think Bones Hyland is a great get or anything. And he might be an annoying, inconsistent, bad-defensive-playing chucker his entire career... but...
He's posted a positive VORP as a key rotation player on a playoff season in each of his first two seasons in the league. He's actually played in playoff games (poorly, but still). My beef isn't that Bones Hyland is good... as much as... are you sure all the Timberwolves bench players aside from Forbes are good?
crazysauce wrote:Doogie said that the nuggets would want Prince for Hyland. I say no to that deal.
Honestly, trading for Hyland makes no sense. He's a terrible defender. As for his offense, he's a career 40% FG shooter, 36% from behind the arc. He doesn't rebound or facilitate. I think it would be nuts to give up anyone in the Wolves organization other than Forbes for Hyland.
I don't want to see a major trade at this point and it's hard to see how this team could improve this season through a minor trade involving Naz or Nowell. Given our depleted draft assets, I certainly wouldn't give up Minott, Garza or Moore The one thing I'd like to see this team bring in via a minor trade would be a mobile rebounder like Vanderbilt - a guy who gets those 50-50 balls. If our front office is convinced they won't be able to keep Nowell or Naz, then they should trade one or both of them by the deadline - but not for Bones Hyland!
Whoa.
I don't think Bones Hyland is a great get or anything. And he might be an annoying, inconsistent, bad-defensive-playing chucker his entire career... but...
He's posted a positive VORP as a key rotation player on a playoff season in each of his first two seasons in the league. He's actually played in playoff games (poorly, but still). My beef isn't that Bones Hyland is good... as much as... are you sure all the Timberwolves bench players aside from Forbes are good?
I agree with this. I realize there are going to be exceptions to every stat. But I generally trust VORP. I realize the plus/minus people will have a beef with Bones Hyland and rightfully so based on that stat. But based on VORP (which I find more reliable than +/-), I think he's probably an upgrade to guys we currently have coming off the bench including: Nowell, Rivers, Ryan etc. The guy is also only 22 years old, so there could be some unlocked upside. I'd certainly be fine getting getting Bones for the right price. He's also on an affordable contract for a few years - which would be a good financial move vs. say overpaying Nowell.
Q-was-here wrote:
But you seem to be assuming that the assets we get back from any of these three will help us this year more than the assets we send out. Are you sure about that? Do you really think we can land a Cassell or Sprewell with any of those guys?
None of us have any real idea of what is possible. Let's see what happens. Obviously I do no support dumping productive players for poor returns. TC needs to earn his money and find the right deals. Hopefully he can redeem himself some after the Gobert trade. We have some players that should have some value - it's not like we don't have anything to offer.
Edit. I've F'd this up twice. But here is what it took to get Sam Cassell back in the day:
June 27, 2003: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks with Ervin Johnson to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Anthony Peeler and Joe Smith.
My contention is that what we have to offer is likely not going to bring anything back that is somehow better for THIS season. We trade Naz for.....who exactly that is going to be a better backup to Gobert in KAT's absence? We trade DLO for....who exactly that can play great defense, while still handling the ball and making open 3s?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I just struggle to conjure up deals involving our expiring contracts that would end up being upgrades to the current team in their playoff push.
Now if the season were lost and we are talking about recovering some draft assets, that's a different story. But none of those draft assets help us this year in a tight playoff race.
I respect your position. I'll just clarify my original point which is that we have no idea what is possible. It certainly doesn't have to be one for ones i.e Naz for a player or DLO for a player. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. Just clarifying what I'm thinking could happen including multiple teams and Wolves adding/combining players not named Edwards, McDaniels, Gobert or KAT. Clearly DLO is our biggest chip to offer and his play of late might be perfect timing as Cool has pointed out. Add in a player or combo of players like Naz, Prince, SlowMo, Nowell, Moore Jr...I think there is enough value and salary combinations to bring back value. I don't have specific examples. I know some guys like to play with the trade machine and that's fine. But my point is that there are possibilities that we can't fathom. It's up to the big shots to explore those avenues and I'm confident they will. I'm predicting at least a couple moves by the deadline and I'm excited to see what they come up with to improve this team. Tim Connelly's worst nightmare would be for us to miss the playoffs and send lotto picks back to Utah. He's going to pull every lever he has to make sure that doesn't happen.
Pulling levers doesn't always yield positive results, though. Rather, as we've seen before, this team can actually get worse or fail to improve by making moves when they don't necessarily need to. I think the best and safest outcome is for Minnesota to do nothing at the deadline. There are trade opportunities that I think would be plenty worthwhile, but with the team largely playing really well, there's little reason to cause any meaningful friction to that. They'll probably get Karl-Anthony Towns back in the next month or so. There's no player available in the league that could potentially boost the team more than him.
Q-was-here wrote:
But you seem to be assuming that the assets we get back from any of these three will help us this year more than the assets we send out. Are you sure about that? Do you really think we can land a Cassell or Sprewell with any of those guys?
None of us have any real idea of what is possible. Let's see what happens. Obviously I do no support dumping productive players for poor returns. TC needs to earn his money and find the right deals. Hopefully he can redeem himself some after the Gobert trade. We have some players that should have some value - it's not like we don't have anything to offer.
Edit. I've F'd this up twice. But here is what it took to get Sam Cassell back in the day:
June 27, 2003: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks with Ervin Johnson to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Anthony Peeler and Joe Smith.
My contention is that what we have to offer is likely not going to bring anything back that is somehow better for THIS season. We trade Naz for.....who exactly that is going to be a better backup to Gobert in KAT's absence? We trade DLO for....who exactly that can play great defense, while still handling the ball and making open 3s?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I just struggle to conjure up deals involving our expiring contracts that would end up being upgrades to the current team in their playoff push.
Now if the season were lost and we are talking about recovering some draft assets, that's a different story. But none of those draft assets help us this year in a tight playoff race.
I respect your position. I'll just clarify my original point which is that we have no idea what is possible. It certainly doesn't have to be one for ones i.e Naz for a player or DLO for a player. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. Just clarifying what I'm thinking could happen including multiple teams and Wolves adding/combining players not named Edwards, McDaniels, Gobert or KAT. Clearly DLO is our biggest chip to offer and his play of late might be perfect timing as Cool has pointed out. Add in a player or combo of players like Naz, Prince, SlowMo, Nowell, Moore Jr...I think there is enough value and salary combinations to bring back value. I don't have specific examples. I know some guys like to play with the trade machine and that's fine. But my point is that there are possibilities that we can't fathom. It's up to the big shots to explore those avenues and I'm confident they will. I'm predicting at least a couple moves by the deadline and I'm excited to see what they come up with to improve this team. Tim Connelly's worst nightmare would be for us to miss the playoffs and send lotto picks back to Utah. He's going to pull every lever he has to make sure that doesn't happen.
I get where you are coming from but honestly I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for any meaningful deals.
Also for the Wolves to trade Anderson they would have to be getting a pretty good player back because...Kyle Anderson is a pretty good player.
Carlos isn't saying they should trade Slo-Mo or any other player specifically. He's saying there are a lot of things we as fans aren't qualified to speculate on. We don't know what players are available. We don't know what our front office really feels about our players. We don't know what other teams are looking for. And we don't know how many different ways player X could wind up with team Y. Yesterday the New York Islanders make a big trade for Bo Horvat of the Vancouver Canucks. Horvat was rumored to be on the block and several teams were rumored to have interest. But none of those teams were the Islanders. Just about anything can happen, and it's a little arrogant of posters to argue that we can't get value for whomever. How do you know?
crazysauce wrote:Doogie said that the nuggets would want Prince for Hyland. I say no to that deal.
It's clear to me that TC was fleeced by Danny Ainge. But I'm not ready to conclude that TC is a dim bulb. I was too quick to proclaim Rosas a village idiot and I don't want to make the same mistake with Connelly. Nevertheless, if TC trades Prince for Hyland, I'll probably find it impossible not to place the village idiot label on him. Honestly, trading for Hyland makes no sense. He's a terrible defender. As for his offense, he's a career 40% FG shooter, 36% from behind the arc. He doesn't rebound or facilitate. I think it would be nuts to give up anyone in the Wolves organization other than Forbes for Hyland.
I don't want to see a major trade at this point and it's hard to see how this team could improve this season through a minor trade involving Naz or Nowell. Given our depleted draft assets, I certainly wouldn't give up Minott, Garza or Moore The one thing I'd like to see this team bring in via a minor trade would be a mobile rebounder like Vanderbilt - a guy who gets those 50-50 balls. If our front office is convinced they won't be able to keep Nowell or Naz, then they should trade one or both of them by the deadline - but not for Bones Hyland!
I've only seen Bones play when he plays the Wolves, and he seems pretty confident in himself. Almost a Lavine level of swag. I know on realgm about a month or so ago, there was a discussion on players that could be stars if they got more minutes on another team, and Bones was brought up by a few people as someone that could score 25 points per game if given the chance. On the Denver realgm page, multiple posters are going crazy, asking why they would trade someone with so much potential, saying Denver has given up on players way too early over the past few years. Again I've only seen him play a few times, but it is interesting what some fan think of him.
