WolvesFan21 wrote:I wouldn't trade Rudy. Without him someone recently said we are 28th in defense. You are going no where with almost the worst defense in the NBA. I don't care how good the offense is. Wasn't Boston and GSW 1 and 2 on defense last year? I think you want to be at least top 10 to be competitive, not almost the worst. Naz and Garza are nearly unplayable due to their defense deficiencies.
Now if you do trade Rudy you need two centers. Really TC would be a God if he just kept Kessler and picked in Naz instead.
We were good enough defensively without Rudy last season to finish 10 games over .500 and nearly knock off the second seed Grizzlies. The team doesn't have to have Rudy to play well defensively. I don't believe any of the top defensively teams in the NBA have built their defense around a traditional center like Rudy. In fact, Rudy became a liability for the Jazz in the playoffs. No Wolves fan should worry about losing Rudy.
WolvesFan21 wrote:I wouldn't trade Rudy. Without him someone recently said we are 28th in defense. You are going no where with almost the worst defense in the NBA. I don't care how good the offense is. Wasn't Boston and GSW 1 and 2 on defense last year? I think you want to be at least top 10 to be competitive, not almost the worst. Naz and Garza are nearly unplayable due to their defense deficiencies.
Now if you do trade Rudy you need two centers. Really TC would be a God if he just kept Kessler and picked in Naz instead.
We were good enough defensively without Rudy last season to finish 10 games over .500 and nearly knock off the second seed Grizzlies. The team doesn't have to have Rudy to play well defensively. I don't believe any of the top defensively teams in the NBA have built their defense around a traditional center like Rudy. In fact, Rudy became a liability for the Jazz in the playoffs. No Wolves fan should worry about losing Rudy.
We couldn't defend and rebound against Memphis. We were getting out rebounded by 8 boards a game in the playoffs. The status quo wasn't going to cut it. KAT is actually just mediocre at rebounding as a center himself. Then we had too many weak spots like DLO, Jaden, Naz, Bease etc. We had to make a move to shore up the defense and especially the rebounding which was weak.
Had we known Kessler would be this good this early then you simply draft him, I even compared him to Rudy but I didn't trust my eyes to say he would be that good potentially.
Like I said though imagine if we had Kessler instead of Naz, then that trade looks amazing. TC didn't trust his Kessler pick either.
Sundog60 wrote:We're a dark and bitter fanbase. How do you fellas make it out of bed in the morning :-)
I tried to help the boys get up with a smile on their faces on a Monday morning by bumping a preseason thread where we were debating whether the Wolves were the most talented team in the league, sundog!
I'm not opposed to moving Gobert in the not so distant future for less than the Wolves gave up.
I'm also waiting to see how the rest of this season plays out. I'm not sure there is enough evidence that Gobert isn't a worthwhile player on this roster. We can't move him till after the season so I'm not gonna put too much thought into it.
I'd want more than what I would be like...hey if Gobert was available would I still trade for him at that price...
The Wolves gave up players in the Gobert deal that had some sort of value either this season or for a couple seasons. What if the Wolves got back a player/s in the Gobert trade that fit even better long term? I'm not sure I can come up with an example right now but it doesn't have to be a star just guy that fits well into the starting lineup or maybe even a couple rotation guys that bring something the Wolves don't have.
I think my goal for the Wolves this offseason is finding the most chances at young talent to continue building the roster while keeping the team reasonably competitive. Ultimately I want to not have dead weight players in trade I want them to do one or the other.
I read in the Athletic that less than 10 teams are projected to have cap space but some of those teams could have more than a max contract spot. There are a number of teams including the Wolves that may want to make some moves and or add a key player and not much salary flexibility to do it. Could get interesting and that could shake loose some options that are not apparent right now regardless of what avenue the Wolves decide to go. I'm gonna just focus on this season and go from there.
lipoli390 wrote:Good question, Bloop. But it's hard to answer in the abstract. I'd be satisfied with getting what Carlos suggested, i.e., two firsts and a rotation player. Realistically, I those at least one and probably both picks would be protected - maybe top 5 on one and top 10 on the other.
Part of my thinking on what I'd be willing to accept turns on what we could potentially get for him. It's hard to know what the market for Rudy is right now. No other team was going to give up what the Wolves gave up last summer and Rudy's value is even lower now. Toronto was one of the teams interested in him last summer, but having acquired Poeltl, they're probably no long in the market for Rudy. The Knicks and Heat are a couple teams that might be interested in him. Maybe the Mavs - adding interior defense to go with their perimeter offense from Luka and Kyrie. I honestly can't think of any others.
It's easier for me to answer your question with some hypotheticals. I like Cam's three hypotheticals. Here are some possible trades with the Knicks:
1. Knicks Hyopthetical #1:
Wolves Trade: Rudy
Wolves Get: Barrett, Toppin, Rose, Milwaukee 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Barrett is the main value here. Not sure how well he fits with the Wolves
2. Knicks Hypothetical #2
Wolves trade: Rudy and Knight
Wolves Get: Robinson, Fournier, Quickly or Grimes, Knicks 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Milwaukee 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Robinson and Quickly would be the main value here. Robinson's age fits well with Ant & Jaden. Fit with KAT? Quickly could be our young PG of the future even though he's listed as a SG. Fournier is negative value with 2 years left on his deal. I don't think we could get two first round picks in this package. So it would more likely be one of the two first rounders and the Detroit 2nd.
3. Knicks Hypothetical #3
Wolves trade: Rudy and Knight
Wolves Get: Hart, Rose, Toppin, Knicks 2025 pick, Bucks 2025 pick (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Main value here consists of Hart (excellent rebounder) and the picks
4. Knicks Hypo #4;
Wolves trade Rudy and Knight
Wolves get: Robinson, Rose, Quickly and Bucks 2025 1st or Detroit's 2024 2nd
Comment: Probably not realistic to get Robinson and Quickly along with picks.
5. Knicks Hypo #5:
Wolves trade Rudy & Knight
Wolves get: Randle, Hart, Quickly, Milwaukee 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Not sure whether the Knicks still consider Randle a negative given the season he's having. He wouldn't fit well on the Wolves. The value here for the Wolves would be Quickly, Hart and the two picks. The 2024 Detroit 2nd should be in the 30s.
Just so you know, in any of these proposals, they'll ask for KAT and not Rudy.
Gobert's effectiveness has NOT declined. He is not likely to change his game much, but you can't for instance argue with his effectiveness in the last game.
We've built a roster that can block the paint, as well as a roster that can go small and we have the players to do both of those things. The fact that Gobert can be played off the floor doesn't negate the fact that he's shored up our interior defense
Rudy has kept us in the mix this year. Today we have the 12th best D with glimpses that it could get even better. I have even liked the basketball in spite of Rudy's offensive warts. If someone told me Kat was going to play 20 games of shitty basketball for the whole season no way I would have had us over 500 going into the all star break. Rudy will continue to be a polarizing player, he's paid too much, but he contributes to winning, and that is all I want. Go Wolves.
lipoli390 wrote:Good question, Bloop. But it's hard to answer in the abstract. I'd be satisfied with getting what Carlos suggested, i.e., two firsts and a rotation player. Realistically, I those at least one and probably both picks would be protected - maybe top 5 on one and top 10 on the other.
Part of my thinking on what I'd be willing to accept turns on what we could potentially get for him. It's hard to know what the market for Rudy is right now. No other team was going to give up what the Wolves gave up last summer and Rudy's value is even lower now. Toronto was one of the teams interested in him last summer, but having acquired Poeltl, they're probably no long in the market for Rudy. The Knicks and Heat are a couple teams that might be interested in him. Maybe the Mavs - adding interior defense to go with their perimeter offense from Luka and Kyrie. I honestly can't think of any others.
It's easier for me to answer your question with some hypotheticals. I like Cam's three hypotheticals. Here are some possible trades with the Knicks:
1. Knicks Hyopthetical #1:
Wolves Trade: Rudy
Wolves Get: Barrett, Toppin, Rose, Milwaukee 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Barrett is the main value here. Not sure how well he fits with the Wolves
2. Knicks Hypothetical #2
Wolves trade: Rudy and Knight
Wolves Get: Robinson, Fournier, Quickly or Grimes, Knicks 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Milwaukee 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Robinson and Quickly would be the main value here. Robinson's age fits well with Ant & Jaden. Fit with KAT? Quickly could be our young PG of the future even though he's listed as a SG. Fournier is negative value with 2 years left on his deal. I don't think we could get two first round picks in this package. So it would more likely be one of the two first rounders and the Detroit 2nd.
3. Knicks Hypothetical #3
Wolves trade: Rudy and Knight
Wolves Get: Hart, Rose, Toppin, Knicks 2025 pick, Bucks 2025 pick (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Main value here consists of Hart (excellent rebounder) and the picks
4. Knicks Hypo #4;
Wolves trade Rudy and Knight
Wolves get: Robinson, Rose, Quickly and Bucks 2025 1st or Detroit's 2024 2nd
Comment: Probably not realistic to get Robinson and Quickly along with picks.
5. Knicks Hypo #5:
Wolves trade Rudy & Knight
Wolves get: Randle, Hart, Quickly, Milwaukee 2025 1st (top 4 protected), Detroit 2024 2nd
Comment: Not sure whether the Knicks still consider Randle a negative given the season he's having. He wouldn't fit well on the Wolves. The value here for the Wolves would be Quickly, Hart and the two picks. The 2024 Detroit 2nd should be in the 30s.
Just so you know, in any of these proposals, they'll ask for KAT and not Rudy.
Of course they would ask for KAT. But that would be laughable. Rudy and Knight for Hart, Rose, Toppin and two top four protected first round picks is fair value for both sides. What's sad is that it is far less than the Wolves gave up to get him. It's WAY less than KAT's trade value. I think it's probably a bit much to expect both Robinson and Quickly in return for Rudy, which again speaks to what a terrible job TC did negotiating the Gobert deal. But I have no doubt the Knicks would give up one of those two, some salary match and a future first for Rudy. Would that be enough? Maybe.
