Rudy Gobert converted on 95 alley-oops last season
The Wolves' 2 highest usage roll-men last season, KAT and Naz Reid, converted on 5 alley-oops... COMBINED
Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
kekgeek1 wrote:Rudy Gobert converted on 95 alley-oops last season
The Wolves' 2 highest usage roll-men last season, KAT and Naz Reid, converted on 5 alley-oops... COMBINED
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet. But D'Angelo Russell and Rudy gobert together might be awesome.
Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
A couple more thoughts on where we are at after this deal.
-If you are concerned with future picks then what the Wolves were able to do in this draft looks even better. They got a 2nd first round pick and after the dust settled only lost one future 2nd round pick. Maybe Moore or Minott or the Italian kid aren't any good but if you like young talent it's a nice group and the Wolves traded away basically a first round pick in Kessler and still have some talent from this year's draft.
To some extent one of the things Connelly is betting on here is himself. Can he bring in cheap talent without cap space or in some cases first and 2nd round picks? Can he cash in on some players and acquire a pick here and there?
I think ownership is gonna go all in. That means if the Wolves decide they want to pay for Nowell they will do it. Some people will dislike the idea but maybe they desire to pay Russell. They could do that. What if Naz Reid fits better now than before? They could pay him.
It's time to take a step back and look at various players through a bit different lens. How do they fit with Gobert on the roster. It's theoretical now but it's a different roster makeup than it was a few hours ago.
There is some limited sample size of Nowell doing well in the pick and roll. Imagine him working with that skill set with a guy like Gobert around.
Towns can live on the perimeter now on offense a lot. I think that might be where he can actually be utilized to get the most out of him both as a scorer and creating space for his teammates. You can't just leave Gobert to help or pass and dunk for Rudy.
My concern about this deal is whether or not Gobert stays healthy and the type of player he has been for years. If he is still this same guy for the length of his contract then he is gonna be a really damn good player. I was thinking of bigger defensive centers that played a long role Mutumbo came to mind. I think Gobert is a bigger threat on offense and Mutumbo played big minutes when he was like 35 before dropping off. Gobert will have turned 33 before the final year of his contract (assuming he opts in).
One thing this board has said numerous times over the years was...if Towns goes down we have nobody to make up for him. Well that's not the case at C! Lol the Wolves could use another depth PF and now need some depth at PG and maybe even another SG but we will see how they fill that out. They have depth at SF and some of those guys now fit better playing PF now that They could play with Gobert.
-If you are concerned with future picks then what the Wolves were able to do in this draft looks even better. They got a 2nd first round pick and after the dust settled only lost one future 2nd round pick. Maybe Moore or Minott or the Italian kid aren't any good but if you like young talent it's a nice group and the Wolves traded away basically a first round pick in Kessler and still have some talent from this year's draft.
To some extent one of the things Connelly is betting on here is himself. Can he bring in cheap talent without cap space or in some cases first and 2nd round picks? Can he cash in on some players and acquire a pick here and there?
I think ownership is gonna go all in. That means if the Wolves decide they want to pay for Nowell they will do it. Some people will dislike the idea but maybe they desire to pay Russell. They could do that. What if Naz Reid fits better now than before? They could pay him.
It's time to take a step back and look at various players through a bit different lens. How do they fit with Gobert on the roster. It's theoretical now but it's a different roster makeup than it was a few hours ago.
There is some limited sample size of Nowell doing well in the pick and roll. Imagine him working with that skill set with a guy like Gobert around.
Towns can live on the perimeter now on offense a lot. I think that might be where he can actually be utilized to get the most out of him both as a scorer and creating space for his teammates. You can't just leave Gobert to help or pass and dunk for Rudy.
My concern about this deal is whether or not Gobert stays healthy and the type of player he has been for years. If he is still this same guy for the length of his contract then he is gonna be a really damn good player. I was thinking of bigger defensive centers that played a long role Mutumbo came to mind. I think Gobert is a bigger threat on offense and Mutumbo played big minutes when he was like 35 before dropping off. Gobert will have turned 33 before the final year of his contract (assuming he opts in).
One thing this board has said numerous times over the years was...if Towns goes down we have nobody to make up for him. Well that's not the case at C! Lol the Wolves could use another depth PF and now need some depth at PG and maybe even another SG but we will see how they fill that out. They have depth at SF and some of those guys now fit better playing PF now that They could play with Gobert.
Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
kekgeek1 wrote:Rudy Gobert converted on 95 alley-oops last season
The Wolves' 2 highest usage roll-men last season, KAT and Naz Reid, converted on 5 alley-oops... COMBINED
Like I said in the Kessler thread when was the last time the Wolves had a true lob threat? It's been many years. How fun would it be to play PG for the Wolves? Do something tot he defense and maybe just chuck it up to Gobert near the rim. Oh and then you have one of the best shooters in the league that's 6'11" in Towns.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
- Posts: 18065
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Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
Volans19 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:Rudy Gobert converted on 95 alley-oops last season
The Wolves' 2 highest usage roll-men last season, KAT and Naz Reid, converted on 5 alley-oops... COMBINED
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet. But D'Angelo Russell and Rudy gobert together might be awesome.
D'Angelo Russell scores 0.92 points per possession handling in the pick-and-roll (92nd-percentile). Rudy Gobert scores 1.29 points per possession as the roll man in pick-and-roll (99th-percentile). They should be highly-productive in that action if Chris Finch allows them to go to it consistently. Inexplicably, he hasn't incorporated much pick-and-roll in his offensive scheme in Minnesota thus far. I would hope that changes moving forward.
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Coolbreeze44
- Posts: 12109
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Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
I've been in treatment for shock since the news hit until now. One of the other patients down the hall created a disturbance and I used that opportunity to escape. So here I am, back home and trying to accept what just happened. I still have this sliver of hope that Rudy won't pass his physical and the deal will fall through. But I'm ready to admit that is simply self-delusion.
So what do I think of the deal? I want to restrain myself because what I think of the deal can't be fully expressed in words. Apparently, I was screaming the name Herschel Walker in the middle of First Avenue in front of Target Center when the authorities whisked me away to a treatment facility. I think I'm better now -- really I am! Well, now it's on to discussing the deal.
My first thought, other than WTF, is that this is the sort of deal you do if your team is mired in mediocrity with no sign of progress towards success. Even then, you CONSIDER doing this deal only if you are getting a LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Shaq, Kobe or Dwayne Wade IN THEIR PRIME. And even then, you probably don't do the deal unless you're in an attractive destination market that gives you an edge in attracting supporting talent and recovering if it all goes bad.
The Wolves were not mired in mediocrity with no sign of progress towards success when Connelly came here. We were a 46-win team that was bound to get better through the improvement of key young players and likely getting better through strategic draft picks and other acquisitions, including Kyle Anderson. And while Gobert is a great defensive player who sets terrific picks, he's simply not in the same category as any of the hall-of-fame players I mentioned. If he's still in his prime, it's the tail end. Finally, we're obviously not a destination market and when it goes bad and you've depleted your draft stock already, you're screwed if your a mid-market, cold weather team like the Wolves.
My second thought is that Connelly's line that there no short cuts to success was just a line. This is the ultimate short cut. Put another way, this was a hale Mary that wasn't necessary. And it was a hale Mary to the 30 yard line, not the goal line. The goal line is a Kevin Durant or Kobe in his prime. That's not Gobert, no matter how much you like his game. This is not the way the most successful mid-market teams achieve success. They don't offload all these players and future picks to get the final piece. The Spurs never made a move like this. Nor did the Warriors or the Bucks. The Bucks went all in to get Jrue Holiday, but they gave up nothing close to what the Wolves just gave up. Golden State had some success with their home grown threesome and then added Iggy, which was key to them winning their first championship. But they didn't trade away half their picks over the next decade to get him. They didn't even give away what the Wolves just gave away to get Durant in his prime.
Imagine how you'll feel if Gobert or KAT does down with a season-ending injury. Then we're in the lottery and that pick goes to a conference rival, this Jazz, in what's expected to be one of the most talent-rich drafts in memory. You might remember when David Robinson was lost to a season-ending injury. Well, he was part of a smart organization that had their first-round draft pick that year, which they used to select Tim Duncan.
Just when I thought we had a front office that had the good sense to keep building on the prior regimes record of success with a prudent, rational plan to build a sustainable winner without taking short cuts, we get this. It's just the fate of being a Wolves fan I guess.
Yes, the Wolves might make the NBA finals in one of the next four years as a result of this deal. But I don't think they will. I have my doubts about whether they'll make the Conference finals because I don't think the addition of Gobert will have the synergistic impact that our front office appears to believe it will have. If the Wolves do make the NBA or Conference Finals I suspect the success will be short-lived.
Ultimately, this deal suggests to me a front office that is tone deaf. There was a strong positive vibe developing around this team as they were building around a young, impressive core that had a surprisingly successful run last season with all the key players coming back, some high-floor draft picks added and the acquisition of Kyle Anderson. And there were undoubtedly more opportunities to further improve the team through far more measured, but effective, deals to acquire a Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Richaun Holmes or perhaps another needle-moving big. A huge part of attracting, energizing and keeping a fan base is the journey -- the upward incremental climb to success. I experienced that growing up in Chicago as MJ, Scottie and Horace Grant developed together and became champions. Warriors fans experienced it with Curry, Green, and Thompson. Spurs fans experienced it with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The list goes on along a similar path unless you live in LA, Miami or New York.
I know there are some, perhaps most, on this board who like the deal. And there are also those who will reconcile themselves to the deal and rationalize because there's really no other choice if you're committed to remaining a Wolves fan. At some point, I'll have to reconcile myself to this deal, but I won't rationalize to the point of believing it was the right move to make. It was a terrible deal to make and I'll never change my view on that. Meanwhile, I'll continue to follow the team and I'll go to games because I've already renewed my season tickets. And this team might, in fact should, make the playoffs and advance at least one round if not two. That will be great. But I'm not going to enjoy this season or the lead up to it nearly as much as I would have if Connelly had stayed true to his word about not taking short cuts. He's just taken the ultimate short cut at an unprecedented scale in the NBA. It was both unnecessary and reckless in my view. It's only corollary is the Herschel Walker trade. That's the memory that got me temporary committed to a facility earlier today. :). I just hope we don't see a similar result in this instance.
So what do I think of the deal? I want to restrain myself because what I think of the deal can't be fully expressed in words. Apparently, I was screaming the name Herschel Walker in the middle of First Avenue in front of Target Center when the authorities whisked me away to a treatment facility. I think I'm better now -- really I am! Well, now it's on to discussing the deal.
My first thought, other than WTF, is that this is the sort of deal you do if your team is mired in mediocrity with no sign of progress towards success. Even then, you CONSIDER doing this deal only if you are getting a LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Shaq, Kobe or Dwayne Wade IN THEIR PRIME. And even then, you probably don't do the deal unless you're in an attractive destination market that gives you an edge in attracting supporting talent and recovering if it all goes bad.
The Wolves were not mired in mediocrity with no sign of progress towards success when Connelly came here. We were a 46-win team that was bound to get better through the improvement of key young players and likely getting better through strategic draft picks and other acquisitions, including Kyle Anderson. And while Gobert is a great defensive player who sets terrific picks, he's simply not in the same category as any of the hall-of-fame players I mentioned. If he's still in his prime, it's the tail end. Finally, we're obviously not a destination market and when it goes bad and you've depleted your draft stock already, you're screwed if your a mid-market, cold weather team like the Wolves.
My second thought is that Connelly's line that there no short cuts to success was just a line. This is the ultimate short cut. Put another way, this was a hale Mary that wasn't necessary. And it was a hale Mary to the 30 yard line, not the goal line. The goal line is a Kevin Durant or Kobe in his prime. That's not Gobert, no matter how much you like his game. This is not the way the most successful mid-market teams achieve success. They don't offload all these players and future picks to get the final piece. The Spurs never made a move like this. Nor did the Warriors or the Bucks. The Bucks went all in to get Jrue Holiday, but they gave up nothing close to what the Wolves just gave up. Golden State had some success with their home grown threesome and then added Iggy, which was key to them winning their first championship. But they didn't trade away half their picks over the next decade to get him. They didn't even give away what the Wolves just gave away to get Durant in his prime.
Imagine how you'll feel if Gobert or KAT does down with a season-ending injury. Then we're in the lottery and that pick goes to a conference rival, this Jazz, in what's expected to be one of the most talent-rich drafts in memory. You might remember when David Robinson was lost to a season-ending injury. Well, he was part of a smart organization that had their first-round draft pick that year, which they used to select Tim Duncan.
Just when I thought we had a front office that had the good sense to keep building on the prior regimes record of success with a prudent, rational plan to build a sustainable winner without taking short cuts, we get this. It's just the fate of being a Wolves fan I guess.
Yes, the Wolves might make the NBA finals in one of the next four years as a result of this deal. But I don't think they will. I have my doubts about whether they'll make the Conference finals because I don't think the addition of Gobert will have the synergistic impact that our front office appears to believe it will have. If the Wolves do make the NBA or Conference Finals I suspect the success will be short-lived.
Ultimately, this deal suggests to me a front office that is tone deaf. There was a strong positive vibe developing around this team as they were building around a young, impressive core that had a surprisingly successful run last season with all the key players coming back, some high-floor draft picks added and the acquisition of Kyle Anderson. And there were undoubtedly more opportunities to further improve the team through far more measured, but effective, deals to acquire a Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Richaun Holmes or perhaps another needle-moving big. A huge part of attracting, energizing and keeping a fan base is the journey -- the upward incremental climb to success. I experienced that growing up in Chicago as MJ, Scottie and Horace Grant developed together and became champions. Warriors fans experienced it with Curry, Green, and Thompson. Spurs fans experienced it with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The list goes on along a similar path unless you live in LA, Miami or New York.
I know there are some, perhaps most, on this board who like the deal. And there are also those who will reconcile themselves to the deal and rationalize because there's really no other choice if you're committed to remaining a Wolves fan. At some point, I'll have to reconcile myself to this deal, but I won't rationalize to the point of believing it was the right move to make. It was a terrible deal to make and I'll never change my view on that. Meanwhile, I'll continue to follow the team and I'll go to games because I've already renewed my season tickets. And this team might, in fact should, make the playoffs and advance at least one round if not two. That will be great. But I'm not going to enjoy this season or the lead up to it nearly as much as I would have if Connelly had stayed true to his word about not taking short cuts. He's just taken the ultimate short cut at an unprecedented scale in the NBA. It was both unnecessary and reckless in my view. It's only corollary is the Herschel Walker trade. That's the memory that got me temporary committed to a facility earlier today. :). I just hope we don't see a similar result in this instance.
Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
Doesn't Kat hold some responsibility for the organization going this direction? His immaturity and inability to hold down the paint without getting into foul trouble before half has hamstrung this team many many times.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
- Posts: 18065
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
Ha! I empathize with the feelings you're having, Lip, and I wouldn't have made this trade either. That needs to be very clear and on the record.
While the future salary cap issues are extreme with Rudy Gobert on the payroll, and the war chest of assets is missing a handful of first-round picks, I truly believe that the upcoming season of Timberwolves basketball will be one of the best and most successful in franchise history -- a low bar to exceed, no doubt. The 2022-23 roster looks like the best and most talented that we've seen in a long time, and maybe ever. I can get excited about that even though I'm aware of what was given up.
In terms of value, I think Minnesota gave up too much for Gobert. Four first-round picks plus the rights to 2022 first-rounder, Walker Kessler, and more is a bitter pill to swallow. I mentioned that the quantity of firsts outgoing for Minnesota would likely have been lower had they been willing to include Jaden McDaniels in their package. That has essentially been confirmed by The Athletic. That's a mighty big detail in all of this and it places even more importance on his player development.
However, Gobert is an elite player in the NBA even though he's often cast aside in those conversations. He's undoubtedly a top-20 player in the league and a future Hall of Famer. The annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate (and three-time winner) is a legitimate team-changer, a ceiling-riser. We went from hoping for an average defense last year and being happy with middle of the ranks to now expecting a top-five defense next year. That's the Gobert effect. He just puts a lid on the basket whether he actually blocks shots, alters the attempt, or intimidates shooters from even challenging him. The impact I expect him to have on this team is insane.
Did Minnesota give up way too much? Yes, I believe they did. But if they make a couple of legitimate runs at the conference finals and beyond, will we look back and think fondly of this move? I tend to believe we will, especially because of how little winning we've experienced as fans of this organization. It's an all-in move with an aggressive front office supported by new ownership who appears to be results-driven and invested as fans of the product. They want to win as much as we do. When you take all of that into account I think you can talk yourself into enjoying the next couple of years. They might have to reshuffle some parts later on, but they likely went from a team that had a fifth-seed ceiling to a team that could be playing in the NBA Finals if things go their way. That has to mean something.
While the future salary cap issues are extreme with Rudy Gobert on the payroll, and the war chest of assets is missing a handful of first-round picks, I truly believe that the upcoming season of Timberwolves basketball will be one of the best and most successful in franchise history -- a low bar to exceed, no doubt. The 2022-23 roster looks like the best and most talented that we've seen in a long time, and maybe ever. I can get excited about that even though I'm aware of what was given up.
In terms of value, I think Minnesota gave up too much for Gobert. Four first-round picks plus the rights to 2022 first-rounder, Walker Kessler, and more is a bitter pill to swallow. I mentioned that the quantity of firsts outgoing for Minnesota would likely have been lower had they been willing to include Jaden McDaniels in their package. That has essentially been confirmed by The Athletic. That's a mighty big detail in all of this and it places even more importance on his player development.
However, Gobert is an elite player in the NBA even though he's often cast aside in those conversations. He's undoubtedly a top-20 player in the league and a future Hall of Famer. The annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate (and three-time winner) is a legitimate team-changer, a ceiling-riser. We went from hoping for an average defense last year and being happy with middle of the ranks to now expecting a top-five defense next year. That's the Gobert effect. He just puts a lid on the basket whether he actually blocks shots, alters the attempt, or intimidates shooters from even challenging him. The impact I expect him to have on this team is insane.
Did Minnesota give up way too much? Yes, I believe they did. But if they make a couple of legitimate runs at the conference finals and beyond, will we look back and think fondly of this move? I tend to believe we will, especially because of how little winning we've experienced as fans of this organization. It's an all-in move with an aggressive front office supported by new ownership who appears to be results-driven and invested as fans of the product. They want to win as much as we do. When you take all of that into account I think you can talk yourself into enjoying the next couple of years. They might have to reshuffle some parts later on, but they likely went from a team that had a fifth-seed ceiling to a team that could be playing in the NBA Finals if things go their way. That has to mean something.
Re: Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves
On the flipside, think to KGs tenure here. 8 straight first round playoff exits. Everytime someone like Gary Payton or Allen Iverson became available the Wolves came up short or got cold feet. They went all in once and really it was lightning in a bottle with Sam Cassell having his best year at the right time. That time period is known in basketball history for wasting away Garnett's career.
This deal sets to elevate Town's prime years and maximize Ant's upside years, not sit back and hope that someone will eventually come along. We could be waiting another 4 years to get another premier player for Towns and then he will be 30. If this ultimately doesn't work the team can conceivably get 2 more bites at the Ant prime apple. Why wait? Let's go!
This deal sets to elevate Town's prime years and maximize Ant's upside years, not sit back and hope that someone will eventually come along. We could be waiting another 4 years to get another premier player for Towns and then he will be 30. If this ultimately doesn't work the team can conceivably get 2 more bites at the Ant prime apple. Why wait? Let's go!