FNG wrote:I'm a defense-first guy, and I've long thought that the typical NBA fan (even smarter than average fans like we have here) tend to favor offense over defense...and often significantly. In my opinion we just completed a trade for a Steph Curry, because I see Gobert impacting the game defensively in a way a guy like Curry impacts a game on offense.
We gave up players who we liked but would never be starters on a championship team, plus a handful of picks most likely to be in the mid to late 20s...for the most dominant defensive player of our era. It's an old adage that the team that ends up with the best player in a trade won the trade. Maybe I'll be proved wrong in the end, but I just can't see this as an overpay.
What you'll read (not sure if it's entirely verifiable or not, but I believe it) is that Utah demanded Jaden McDaniels. TC countered with more draft compensation instead. So let's say Jaden was added to the pool of players given up in addition to two firsts instead of the four firsts. You better believe all the naysayers would be going nuts on how stupid and idiotic TC was for giving up Jaden! How could he!?
I'd like to hear what some of the naysayers believe would have been a fair deal for Gobert and then those same naysayers need to ask themselves if that was a fair deal from Utah's perspective. Is it only a good trade if we totally fleece the other team, as if that's possible today with the caliber of modern day GMs? We literally didn't have to give up any of our most prized existing assets in KAT, Ant, and Jaden to get what some would argue is a top 10-15 NBA player in terms of his impact on a game.
I'm a naysayer and I'm glad we didn't give up jaden, but we should have just hung up the phone. My opinion is that we gave up way too much and I feel like the word idiotic fits perfectly here.
Your real good at spouting off hyperbolic throwaway lines ("DLO is a loser!" "Tim Connelly is an idiot and lazy!"). But I suspect your more intelligent than you let on, so tell us what you think a fair deal for Gobert would have been? When would you not hang up the phone and do the deal? I mean, there must be some threshold of acceptability since you yourself said his acquisition increased our chance at a title by 3-fold, from 10% to 30%.
Lol, hi Q, you make it sound like my comments are written by a knuckle dragger... I actually think most of my posts have been pretty well written and thought out. If you go back and read my posts you'll see that I pretty much spelled out my more detailed thoughts on the 10%/30% thing. My hang up point would have been one less pick, more protection on another one or two and keep either bolmaro or Kessler (keeping Kessler would require less protection on the pick). That is my absolute final offer and as you can see, the difference is pretty significant, but still probably more than anyone else would have offered. If Utah doesn't accept that then I'd move on to the several other options that me and others have identified.
Also, I wrote a lot more about TC beyond just calling this move idiotic. I don't appreciate you saying that I'm just spouting these comments off. It's a message board dude, so I don't think I'm "spouting" more than anyone else. I'll see myself out.
Thank you for coherently articulating your position D-Loser. I actually think you have some intelligent insights, but it's hard to take them seriously when you use bombast and exaggeration. You're right - it's an unmoderated message board, freedom of speech, yada, yada yada....you can say whatever you want to say.
As for your proposal, I actually don't view it as significantly different, especially in light of the Wolves not having to give up any of their top three existing assets. And based on that, it seems like a really short distance between your definition of a smart deal and an allegedly lazy, idiotic imbecile that, despite his incompetence, just increased our odds of winning a title by 3X according to you!
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a lot of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a log of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?
I looked at Cam's list of names and none jumped out to me. Is Rondo a leader anymore or is that guy just a vagabond cashing a check at this point?
Ya know, I wasn't interested in him when his name was being thrown out there a week or two ago, but now that we are literally trying to contend (!!), PJ Tucker suddenly comes to mind as a guy we could have used...perhaps at the expense of using the MLE on Kyle Anderson. I know he doesn't play PG, but that's a guy you want in the trenches with you come playoff time.
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a log of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?
I looked at Cam's list of names and none jumped out to me. Is Rondo a leader anymore or is that guy just a vagabond cashing a check at this point?
Ya know, I wasn't interested in him when his name was being thrown out there a week or two ago, but now that we are literally trying to contend (!!), PJ Tucker suddenly comes to mind as a guy we could have used...perhaps at the expense of using the MLE on Kyle Anderson. I know he doesn't play PG, but that's a guy you want in the trenches with you come playoff time.
What about Avery Bradley? I didn't see him on Cam's list, but I think he's still available as an unrestricted free agent. He's always been a very good defender, 3-point shooter and ball-handler. He's also always had durability issues, but so did Beverley. I think Bradley and Beverley are about the same age.
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a log of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?
I looked at Cam's list of names and none jumped out to me. Is Rondo a leader anymore or is that guy just a vagabond cashing a check at this point?
Ya know, I wasn't interested in him when his name was being thrown out there a week or two ago, but now that we are literally trying to contend (!!), PJ Tucker suddenly comes to mind as a guy we could have used...perhaps at the expense of using the MLE on Kyle Anderson. I know he doesn't play PG, but that's a guy you want in the trenches with you come playoff time.
What about Avery Bradley? I didn't see him on Cam's list, but I think he's still available as an unrestricted free agent. He's always been a very good defender, 3-point shooter and ball-handler. He's also always had durability issues, but so did Beverley. I think Bradley and Beverley are about the same age.
For what it's worth, Avery Bradley missed 87 games combined over the past three seasons. He also appeared to have lost a step defensively from what I saw of him and his defensive metrics continue to climb in the wrong direction, although that's not entirely his fault. I think Bradley's more reputation than production at this point in his career, but I'm open to hearing alternative views. At 31-years old, he should still have a couple worthy seasons left in him, but I don't think he's trending in the right direction, personally. I know Lakers fans think he's washed.
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a log of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?
I looked at Cam's list of names and none jumped out to me. Is Rondo a leader anymore or is that guy just a vagabond cashing a check at this point?
Ya know, I wasn't interested in him when his name was being thrown out there a week or two ago, but now that we are literally trying to contend (!!), PJ Tucker suddenly comes to mind as a guy we could have used...perhaps at the expense of using the MLE on Kyle Anderson. I know he doesn't play PG, but that's a guy you want in the trenches with you come playoff time.
What about Avery Bradley? I didn't see him on Cam's list, but I think he's still available as an unrestricted free agent. He's always been a very good defender, 3-point shooter and ball-handler. He's also always had durability issues, but so did Beverley. I think Bradley and Beverley are about the same age.
This is good discussion.
Maybe this is too obvious and yes we still need a perimeter defender but...Gobert isn't gonna just be back there quietly doing his job. A few fans and at least one media has suggested Gobert got on Mitchell plenty about his defense and that may have been part of the "issue" between them if anything.
I mentioned the Pistons as a team to compare this Wolves team to and one of the other reasons besides the awesome defense Ben Wallace provided they had Tayshaun Prince at SF who even at the time was a pretty lengthy player for the position. Dane Moore and Brit Robson talked about how good McDaniels can be when he is able to use some space to defend because he is so long. Now he has Gobert behind him and he will be playing even more SF. McDaniels hasn't proven himself to be the super smart defender Prince was but he is more athletic. In addition the Wolves have a Tayshaun Prince type not super athletic lengthy player with super smarts coming off the bench in Kyle Anderson who will probably help in the defensive prodding but probably not in the edgy way.
Honestly I think the best way the Wolves can keep guys accountable on D is something Finch actually has done and that's sit guys down if they aren't getting the job done there. If someone isn't giving the effort on D on that end (I see this mostly being a concern for the guards) and the next guy doesn't either Finch could even throw Moore out there just to make a point. He can play McLaughlin if others aren't playing D because if Jordan isn't getting it done on D it's not usually about effort or doing what he is supposed to do it's because he is small. It's always good to have a player set the tone but it's time for maybe a young guy to step up into that role. It might be hard to get a guy at this point that will have anywhere near the ability or gravitas as Beverly but I guess you never know. Who thought we were gonna be able to get him for junk last year? There is still plenty of offseason left and Vegas summer league hasn't started yet.
Q I think Rondo can still play but I'm not sure if he can defend much but he is a smart player and is a true PG and he certainly has some edge to him. If you want to sign an actual PG to run a team there might not be anyone out there better at this point.
kekgeek1 wrote:Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.
Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!
Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?
Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a log of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?
I looked at Cam's list of names and none jumped out to me. Is Rondo a leader anymore or is that guy just a vagabond cashing a check at this point?
Ya know, I wasn't interested in him when his name was being thrown out there a week or two ago, but now that we are literally trying to contend (!!), PJ Tucker suddenly comes to mind as a guy we could have used...perhaps at the expense of using the MLE on Kyle Anderson. I know he doesn't play PG, but that's a guy you want in the trenches with you come playoff time.
What about Avery Bradley? I didn't see him on Cam's list, but I think he's still available as an unrestricted free agent. He's always been a very good defender, 3-point shooter and ball-handler. He's also always had durability issues, but so did Beverley. I think Bradley and Beverley are about the same age.
For what it's worth, Avery Bradley missed 87 games combined over the past three seasons. He also appeared to have lost a step defensively from what I saw of him and his defensive metrics continue to climb in the wrong direction, although that's not entirely his fault. I think Bradley's more reputation than production at this point in his career, but I'm open to hearing alternative views. At 31-years old, he should still have a couple worthy seasons left in him, but I don't think he's trending in the right direction, personally. I know Lakers fans think he's washed.
I pretty much assumed he's washed up. His durability issues have been far greater than Beverley's. But the pickings are slim. I wouldn't bother with Rondo either. I don't there's anything left in his tank except a sour attitude. I'm intrigued by the Kris Dunn. but hard to know whether he's back from his two-year leg injury. Dunn was quoted recently saying it felt like he only had one leg the past two years. He said he's starting to feel normal again. Hmm. Not sure.
